How do you run Grimcounts?

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How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby Mykenae » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:33 pm

So I'm getting sick of Volcano Hustle and am now looking into different options. I bought the Mirelia meta pack when it came out, and I've already got the other Falkow pre-builts as well as three Vondora. So from that card pool (and I can also afford $50 of purchases if anyone has any suggestions), how can I fix up the file into a working GrimCount file? Here's what I've got so far:

1 Emerald Carbuncle
1 Faytis
3 Wizard Soldier of Regus
3 Mirelia
3 Vondora
3 Return
1 Truth of Regus
1 Time Stop
1 Cyclone
2 Sweeping Tidalwave
2 Lost Tome
2 Meaning of Failure
2 Over Soul

Which grims can be replaced with a support unit? I'm thinking of adding Alna or, if I buy her, Hirume. Also, I'd like to add in some Forbidden Books, but I don't have any. Does this hurt the file overmuch?

I'm still not sure how to arrange soul skills, other than starting with Ice Sorceress. I've got 1) Ice Sorceress, 2) Rasam, 3) Rasam, 4) Dub Rido, 5) Mitzett at the moment, but I get the feeling I should probably add another major unit to the file for that lineup to be effective.

Anyways, I'm not sure how to play this file. Do I get out Wizard Soldier out early and try to protect him with returns and build up my count that way? Do I start out focusing on SP gain grims and get out Mirelia first? Should I use both attackers simultaneously or save one for when the other dies? Should I bring out Vondora as soon as I get that 12th grim activation? That's why I'm posting here instead of Annarose's Sanctum: I have no idea what kind of strategy to use in this file. So...help?
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:47 pm

I think it helps to think about "How will I win the game" as a starting point for a file.

EXAMPLES:

I will destroy all of my opponents cards: If this is your goal you play Gowen as everything is focused on that goal.

I will win by tricks and clever timing: If this is your goal you play Lawtia as you have a diverse array of timing based tricks at your disposal that can provide HUGE momentum swings. (Sadly most people play Lawtia like Gowen).

I will win by slowing the pace of the game down, neutralizing threats, and outlasting my opponent's damage: This is Refess.


Most people play grim counts as if it's a Gowen deck or a Refess deck and it makes my heart weep. You are using wind and water based cards. How does wind and water win games? How does wind deal with problems? What is the strength of wind?
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby Mykenae » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:06 pm

That's not that helpful an answer. It's like trying to tell a person to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich by telling them to find something sweet and something sticky and make a sandwich out of it. The results will probably be messy and not very appetizing. I'm not looking for someone to hold my hand, but I am at least looking for straightforward answers.

I'm asking how to play grimcounts, not how other people fail to play grimcounts well. Sorry if I'm a little frustrated, but that's the same thing that annoys me when I go back and look at the Fixing the Mirelia "meta" topic: the whole thing seems filled with questions and complains on how the file doesn't conform to Falkow specifications. I'm trying to fix the file. So how do I do that?
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:13 pm

You use an agility based removal and return grims. You focus on gaining an SP advantage and manipulating the field to have an advantageous position. You target your attacks at specific cards that defeat the opponent's strategy. You deny the opponent access to his soul skills while trying to activate your own in order to build a dominant position on the field. You can then iczer away happy at the end of the game provided you have succeeded in your goal.

You also must use some unit that has double hitting skill late in the game. You will usually find you are at a massive card disadvantage, which really starts to hurt you late in the game. You will also quickly find that if you don't manipulate the game or gain some form of SP advantage you will lose horribly. During the start skill phase some tribes gain massive snowballing buffs. You don't get any of that stuff.
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby Mykenae » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:47 pm

I'm trying to focus on returns for field manipulation and SP advantage. I've included pretty much every method of returning I can scrounge up, with three returns, two sweeping tidalwaves, a cyclone and a Faytis. I have a good endgame unit in Vondora, so that's good. How would you suggest I improve from there? You did specify agi manipulation...but wouldn't throwing in Undines just divert the file from its emphasis on grims? I don't think I have any agi-manipulating grimoires other than Frozen Lance, but I can try replacing Time Stop with that.

Also, openings: How should I handle those? Stick with Emerald Carbuncle? Switch to Refugee Flying Apprentice? Throw in an Owl Sage?
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby monkeysmiles11 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:22 am

I hate when people say that some one is playing the sphere the wrong way, as if there is a right way, it doesn't promote the diversity each sphere can produce, I for one am happy that I can play my grimcount like...refess I guess? I am just one for meeting challenges head on than side stepping them, why I also like to play undeads and solar kingdom buffs. I am actually really happy a grimcount file can cater to different playstyles.

You may want to determine exactly what playstyle you want to go with on this one, I rarely use returns and usually ony once with mine. I open with refugee flying apprentice to use her ability to raise my falkow to 4 and it counts as a grim followed idealy by 2 meaning of failures to then plant my initial level 4 units. I use inzaghi to tank and give mirelia the possibility of getting two hits in, ascarat is pretty essential for my play style as he can return mirelia himself and inzaghi to my file creating an almost perfect wall. while I spam forbidden book to get my sp up to get out vondora, and Bernet I have to help engage some nasty end units.

SS rasam is a good time staller for me, where ascarat could get some retrievals in the cemetery I can build my grimcount. Elite mage knight of regus SS can be an auto win if the file used or doesn't have a counter to a def that can easily go over 100. Verlaat SS helps if ascarat couldn't keep up.

Grims I try to limit to just my sp generators and oversoul, other than that I just keep a couple of returns on hand. I have a replay of the file on the replay section of the forum under the topic "grim count file", there are other replays of different variations of this file.

Edit: what is also nice about my wall strategy is it tends to use up alot of my opponents unit killing grims, so when a late Elite mage knight SS goes off there are less possibilities to stop it.
Last edited by monkeysmiles11 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby wakka9ca » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:31 am

What I like about grimcount is that you can use a single file to play different styles. Whether you want to spam returns and use bandalt or you want to tank with ascarat and spam books, it gives you a bit of flexibility. Sometimes, all the key units are not even played because I'm busy disrupting the opponent's field like a falkow before starting to tank like refess. Once you achieve field control, it's essentially kill everything that comes out like a gowen.

Some notable cards:

Celerity (permanent AGI boost)
Princess Bernet (toolbox abilities)
Elite Fencer (to deal with Bringer and co.)
Inzaghi (tank and combo)
Ruuca (field wipe and tank)
Ascarat (a very important combo card)
Owl Sage (crucial sp gen)
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby Mykenae » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:07 am

I took a look at your topic in the replays, monkeysmiles, and I can definitely see how Gon and you differ. I really liked your style of play, but it's definitely more Refess-oriented. Your advice is really good too, wakka. I don't have a playset of some of those, but I'll try working towards those soon. Anyways, here's an update: I spent the cash I mentioned, and I've now got a complete set of Hirume and Mikasha (remember kids, always pray before trying the EX Lottery). So I've got two directions I could take this file in: I could stick with the pre-built's focus on Mirelia and Wizard Soldier of Regus (and possibly Alna), or I could build a file around Mirelia, Mikasha and Hirume. I noticed, though, that neither of you mentioned Alna, Mikasha, or Hirume. Could I get a rundown on their usefulness?
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:28 am

Yeah I'm sort of an old school traditionalist. You can obviously do anything you want. I just tell you what a text book about the game were to tell you if there ever was such a thing.

Although some things go beyond the scope of "preference" into the realm of good vs bad value judgements. Monkeysmiles does not like to play a control form of grim counts, he instead likes to play a more defensive outlasting style. Nothing wrong with that. The Mirelia file they sold before reflected bad value judgements.

So you can play the cards any way you want, but it's good to recognize what is objectively good verse objectively bad.

EDIT: Here is a nice video that I think perfectly exemplifies Falkow control playstyle: https://alteil-login.gamepotusa.com/aud ... 5708ba04c1

As far as I'm concerned, that video is textbook Falkow play. Notice how on turn 9 he only has 4 cards in the cemetery and I have worked for field advantage? That is how wind attacks.
Last edited by GonFreeces31 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you run Grimcounts?

Postby Icyman2 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:36 am

I play gowen with timing. One good turn and the field is cleared. There are other ways but clear examples are destroying 3rd copies of your opponent's field at the same time. Screws up the flow of the game tremendously.
Falkow grims return and prevent damage. Gowen grims close and prevent damage. Same thing. It's just that returning denies ss activation. Lawtia's bitter destiny/heartbreak denies sp/ss too.
Anyways, I think 2 sweeping is overkill. There's files out there without level 2s. You already have a faytis in there.
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