Revival without replacement

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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Logress » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:41 pm

The Return card can only target Open, Face up units. For dead units you can use Refuge, which is level-independent.
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Narcissist » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:19 pm

I though Refuge only allowed you to target friendly closed units. I had been wondering if Refuge could be used to counteract blatant unit sacrifices for both SP regen and Soul Skill Activation, but the word "friendly" had always put me off that train of thought.
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby DWildstar » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:31 pm

Yeah, Refuge can only be used on your own units. Though a card to return the other guy's closed card would be interesting ;) how much SP would/should that cost?
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Phenoca » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:58 pm

Logress wrote:Actually, technically Stats reset upon Revival, not upon closing. Any time you go from fully closed to alive and active it is a revival. For example, if you mouse over a fully closed, flipped over unit, it shows the stats it had when it died. Why is this important? There are actually a few cases where this can help or hurt you in theory. There is one in particular I'm thinking of, can anyone figure out what it is?


... Darkness Mirror? Oni? Some sort of glitch where Freezing engages a closed unit (lol).

Maybe several skills only hit units with certain AGI, so like... Leviathan might return it to... Your hand... If it had low AGI? But that wouldn't be much of a strategy, and Leviathan would have to have lower AGI than the 2 AGI closed unit, and you can't get a song sorceress with more than 2 AGI but less than 3, so like, Leviathan gets returned instead of your closed unit.

Still - knowing a dead unit's stats are very important for knowing it the died!

Maybe... A set 4 revival can only revive certain AGI units.

Logress wrote:But there is one card we have right now that can target a fully closed unit and has an effect dependent on the statistics of that unit... Anyone?


Did someone already guess it? Targetting closed units... Not Darkness Mirror or Freezing. Then how about..!
Yeah - I'm still going with Darkness Mirror.
Or yeah - Cure and Life... "Bond"? As well as several other healing grimoires (actually, I cannot think of anymore healing grimoires) can all raise the HP of a closed unit IF it is used after a damaging open/grimoire skill at the beginning of the turn (i.e. unit is damaged below 0 HP but not closed).

So Cure or even those ugly Lawtia... Life Exchange things can get a unit back up to HP >0.
Even Warning Knife could work, but I doubt that would be useful unless your tanks have like... 20 HP.

Grain wrote:Rutina sets a card's HP to 1. Logress is mistaken. Aurora & Renally revive certain types of cards, but, they have no other effects & stats don't matter.

Oh I'm sure he was thinking of Darkness Mirror or some sort of open-skill healing like Cure after something like Magic Bolt.

Logress wrote:First guess got it! It's Instant Revival. Instant Revival can target fully closed units (because it's a revival effect) and it has an effect that is based on a stat.


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Level? Oh come-on - nothing is going to decrease your unit's level!
Time Reader. Like yeah - if I had her I'd be buffing a Refess. If I had time reader, any Refess Decks I played against would be swept-away by my tanks.

Instant Revival. It's something I need in order to be successful with my alternative deck.
Folrart Guardian...
Mayyybe, but not many players use that. In fact, I'd rather use returns on it, or my own buffed Folrart Guardian (actually, two buffed Folrart Guardians tanking it off can be very fun - especially when one has >999 HP).

Anyways - I think it's more important to realize that by buffing the Folrart Guardian, you're giving the other Iczer +1SP for when that card dies. Edit: Would a level 9 Mercenary bring-in 9 SP for dying?

Refuge... It's good after a Snaf-combo... Or an buffed unit that has a self-reviving Close Skill. But if you have a good deck, you will never need more than one Refuge if you have Instant Revival instead (unless you're spamming Sylphs and using Action Skill returns with like, Mystere and Undine - which is probably now obsolete).

Narcissist wrote:I though Refuge only allowed you to target friendly closed units. I had been wondering if Refuge could be used to counteract blatant unit sacrifices for both SP regen and Soul Skill Activation, but the word "friendly" had always put me off that train of thought.

I wish.
It would be a nice strategy, but give skill to a Lawtia or Refess deck - Falkow already has returns, and Lawtia is supposed to be the SP-deprivation deck.


Given Logress' response, I'll assume that Oni, Darkness Mirror and Freezing don't work on closed units. But you can still counter a Magic Bolt or Fire... "Arrow". So yeah, but I guess I can still start using... Yep.
You've enlightened me to the wonders of Cure. I can start using Cure and Warning Knife for my Snaf and Leviathan combos.

Well I have considered Warning Knife for a Snaf combo before, but never as an AGI-booster AND damage-counter.

They are not stat-dependent... But... Recovery Powder is!
In fact, I've seen a damage unit go back up to 0HP (unfortunately not above 0, since I owned it so badly) after someone used Recovery Powder.

So there - Recovery Powder, Life Conversion, Weissvogel, and many other healing grimoires are stat dependent, and can be used to counter an opening (say, Fire Tornado).

Even Burning Sun, Blessing, Ignition, and Sea Wyvern can save your unit from dying. What about Fire and Gaia's rank-up open skill..?

Do Open Skills go before or after damaging grimoires?
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Logress » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:09 am

None of those abilities can target closed units. Remember, just because it goes below 0 HP doesn't mean it's closed. It's not completely closed until the damage is resolved and the card flips over. Healing works to "save" a dead unit only if the unit was killed in the same Open phase and has not yet flipped over (closed.)

If you've checked out the EX card threads, you'll see people are talking about the Taiwanese version of the game, which has released one more set that we have, including a unit that lowers level! That means you could use that in conjunction with Instant Revival to revive a dragon emperor or whatever you want. I'm not sure exactly yet if our EX cards will have those stats and abilities, but at least it looks like there will be more level manipulation in the future.
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Phenoca » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:16 pm

Logress wrote:Remember, just because it goes below 0 HP doesn't mean it's closed.

Yes.


Does level-manipulation affect the SP-gain from the unit dying? Does anyone know if Warning Knife goes before damaging grimoires?

... You can also revive with Holy Light.
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Re: Revival without replacement

Postby Gota » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:42 pm

Grims vs Grims will be 50/50

Level have nothing to do with how much SP you get back.
Its the initial summoning cost, which happens to be the cards BASE level, so raising the card's level on the field doesn't affect how much SP you get back.
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