Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

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Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:06 pm

By "Trait attacks" I refer to ones like, Magic Doll - Grappler, Folrart Elite Dual-Wielder, Bog Wyvern type attacks. Where the attack action is replaced with something different.

Me and Snik did some testing and found a pretty big inconsistency. We were testing both whether Beast King / Rivera SS boosted these kinds of attacks, and if they can hit units such as Feline Kin Fighter, that can't be hit with an Attack option.

What we found was that Magic Doll Grappler can hit Feline Kin (ranked up of course) and does not get a boost from Rivera. In other words, it was not treated as an attack. On the other hand, Dual Wield and Bog Wyvern can not hit Feline Kin and do in fact get the boost. So, those one are treated as attacks.

Now, compare the wording of Grappler and Dual Wield's traits:

Grappler: "When this unit executes an Attack action, subtract AT directly from the HP of one random enemy unit within range."

Dual Wield: "When this unit executes an Attack action, do [damage: AT] to two random enemy units in range. Remains after Revive."


So, i'm just wondering whether or not this is an error, and if so which one is right... or if there is something distinctly different between the two. My only thought is that grappler is a subtract effect while dual wield is still a "damage" effect. Could that be the difference?
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Xovian » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:24 pm

Just want to verify one thing, the feline did not have any DF right?
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:29 pm

Yea, no DF. Just a normal Feline Kin with her rank-up.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Xovian » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:44 pm

Alright.

Possibly a bug.
Through testing of another card (one of the new refess (forget name, but changes her iczer to buff as well as iczer) and Resource, it was pretty conclusive if a given action becomes changed for some reason or another it is counted as the other and not it's original form.

EG:
-An attack changed to subtract, is no longer an attack but an ability that subtracts the AT (from random in this case)
-Iczering that is changed to the buff of iczering will not get the bonus of Resources ability to make a unit Iczer hit twice, and thus only iczers once and gets the buff.

However, the elite dual wielder's ability is a trait, unlike the other two.
My guess is since set 5 introduced "traits", some clarification should be provided.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Skewer » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:44 am

Someone should also test with Mizalio and Teleportation soldier. This seems quite puzzling.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Phenoca » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:38 pm

Xovian wrote:However, the elite dual wielder's ability is a trait, unlike the other two.

So it should hit the Feline, unless...

Well to me, I would assume that it would have to attack a non-feline in range, and then the trait would be able to hit the feline with the second ATK.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Logress » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:08 pm

I think this is a bug. I'll contact the Japanese.
"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine." -Paper
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:35 pm

Is there any chance you'd know which way its bugged? As in are they supposed to be attacks or not? Just curious.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Xovian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:45 pm

While i can't answer as well as Logress or other staff member, i think its safe to say it is not acting as it should.

If an ability says "attack ability becomes X" then it is no longer an attack ability and is the new ability, more along the lines of an action skill.

This could be both good and bad.
Remember more creatures are showing up that can not be effected by abilities, as well as SS like Rivera.
But it allows a bypass for creatures that can't be hit by regular attacks too.
I'm sure in a few more sets entire themes of cant be hit by attack/ability files will rise.

Currently it's just a little too tedious to pull off.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:53 pm

I'm sure in a few more sets entire themes of cant be hit by attack/ability files will rise.


Emana?
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