Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Xovian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:06 pm

One or two cards in a sphere a file does not make....
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:28 pm

There are plenty of mermaids, and Emana makes it so that they can't be hit by attacks :/

How is that not a theme of "can't be hit by attack"? Its practically the only thing Mermaids have going for them :/

Maybe i'm misunderstanding you?
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Xovian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:32 pm

I said theme with all, as in immune to attacks, immune to action skills, immune to SS.

It can be done, but no one sphere can do it effectively.
Thus its tedious to pull off.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby luckysvn777 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:38 pm

Ah... well if a card combo like that existed though, wouldn't it be a tad (as in very) OP?

Really hope that never happens.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Phenoca » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:35 pm

Stop saying "Emana". Now I want gran & point cards even more :D
Though Falkow-rush is working at the moment, with Mermaid Girl substituting for Boy Combat Priest (CotF).
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Visfarix » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:23 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:What we found was that Magic Doll Grappler can hit Feline Kin (ranked up of course) and does not get a boost from Rivera. In other words, it was not treated as an attack. On the other hand, Dual Wield and Bog Wyvern can not hit Feline Kin and do in fact get the boost. So, those one are treated as attacks.

Now, compare the wording of Grappler and Dual Wield's traits:

Grappler: "When this unit executes an Attack action, subtract AT directly from the HP of one random enemy unit within range."

Dual Wield: "When this unit executes an Attack action, do [damage: AT] to two random enemy units in range. Remains after Revive."


So, i'm just wondering whether or not this is an error, and if so which one is right... or if there is something distinctly different between the two. My only thought is that grappler is a subtract effect while dual wield is still a "damage" effect. Could that be the difference?


While the wording is somewhat confusing (I actually find alot of Alteil card wording to be a little inconsistent, but I guess that's what I get for being a MTG player and almost judge), it seems that -Magic Doll- Grappler's attack action gets a replacement effect that says "...subtract AT directly from the hp of one random enemy unit within range." while Dual Wielder and Bog Wyvern still do regular damage.

Now if the question is why grappler doesn't get Beast King/Rivera's AT boost, that should be pretty clear. Rivera's ability reads, "From now on, when any of your units executes an Attack action add +10 damage. This effect is cumulative.", but grappler's trait makes her directly subtract her AT from a random enemy unit and not deal any damage at all. Therefore Rivera's abiltiy can't add extra damage because grappler simply isn't dealing any damage in the first place.

...Actually that could explain why feline kin can get hit by grappler too.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Artist » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:59 am

Actually, I don't think that's a bug. When grappler attacks, what it really doing is using penetrate. It did exactly what it said it did, "subtract AT from enemy HP," no matter if the enemy has DF, or can't be attacked, or w/e, it subtracts at from their hp.

Now bog wyvern is different, it says "do dmg to 2 enemy units." damage on the other hand is different from subtract from hp. It's simply an attack action to 2 enemy units in this case, just attacking, not "subtracting from hp."
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Logress » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:10 am

Waiting for reply from Japanese. Although, this explains the weird wording on River's skill which I left off because it got too long. Riviera's skill originally said: "Whenever one of your units executes an Attack action for [damage] add +10". Might have to fix that.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Logress » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:31 am

The Japanese determined that it's best if Grappler and Mizalio's abilities always follow the rules of "Attack" options, meaning they can't hit anyone immune to attacks but they do get the bonus from RIvera. They should be working within a few hours.
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Re: Are "Trait attacks" Attacks

Postby Gota » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:15 pm

I believe ALL traits that involves giving regular attacks an extra should be considered 'regular attacks'

Because otherwise, they would just make them a 0SP action skill. Why make all these confusion?

So in my opinion, all those traits should be counted as 'regular attacks' and feline should be able to dodge them all, and rivera should be able to buff them all.
But if some of those traits are meant to be considered 'non regular attacks' then please, make them as action skills with 0sp cost to eliminate those confusion.
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