Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

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Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Karrade » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:27 pm

Hey all, I am a newbie with two specific and one general question on a basic counter strategy, if anyone has the answers I would appreciate it cheers!

1, When using it as a soul card, does the 5 star Ruler of crest require a card to be revived before it fires its damage? So if you have only one card going to the cemetery rather than two, it is useless as a soul card? (One to fire the soul card, one to be closed for the revive?) I may not understand souls fully yet, so that might need some explanation if I have it wrong, sorry in advance :).

2, Who attacks first when their agi is equal, is it level based or random? To be thorough, let’s say I have a level 3 agi 4 character, a level 2 agi 4 character and my opponent has a level 4 agi 4 character, and a level 3 agi 4 character, what would the attack order be?

And now the kicker :).
3, Most people play gowen at my low level, and many of them use alraune. So how do I counter alraune when playing as gowen myself? I have many paid for non starter cards yet she always overpowers me by the midgame, as gowen have few cards that can reach her, I often try rhino but he never makes it in time before being overwhelmed. As a further example, working in the beast king level 4 to shut 2 cards down is tough too, as by the time she/he is ready to be played, I have lost all or most of my front line,making Alraune double her strength, even if I am fortunate enough to get a gorilla and rhino out front. Usually Alraune is played third, at least in most games I lose against a gowen deck, if you have any ideas for non starter cards (or starter) please let me know cheers, as I can never reach her! :)

The strat could use any of the four sets, even a mix match as I have a 1 life point soul card that will give me either 3 in all, or a soul that will give both of us 0 in all. Having invested I have a good spread of them all, to work with. I would be happy to build an average deck against most hands, with a strong emphasis on beating gowen third card alraune :D, as that would win me several matches alone at my current level.
Last edited by Karrade on Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Xovian » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:42 pm

1> Yes, you must revive something before the secondary effect takes place. All card with a "Then," statement are like this.

2> Attacking is random if units have equal AGI, also unless an effect like pinpoint is there, targeting will also be random.

3> Kill her before she gets big is about all you can hope to accomplish if using the gowen starter. Fire Arrow and even Balls of Flame are good vs her, provided you have those Direct damage grims.
SS that do damage or are -max hp also work well on her.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Karrade » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:02 pm

Thank you for help on clearing a lot of things up :). Sorry about being less specific, I added in a few cards as examples while you were posting, to show some of what I have.

I have very much more than a starter, but even so I cannot reach her. I have several 4, 3, and even 5 star cards, but still I cannot formulate a strategy (even a one trick pony counter) to take her down in time.

So I should concentrate on lets say all damage souls to beat her?

I'll show you what I am using currently, it is a bit of an experiment so it does vary. Though I have most cards x 4, only some 5 stars, a few four stars, and the occasional 3 I am lacking to work with.

Souls:

Ruler of Crest Eskatia (revive dmg x2 1LP) (I often use archer pixie in souls too)
Witch Queen Catherine (3 LP)
Bounty Hunter Elena (40 dmg x2 1 LP)
Forest Sorceror Anttila (revive 2 LP)
Water Emperor Legrye (3LP)

Main Deck

This is the really experimental bit, and my current opener - Exploding Spores, Followed by a fairy dance + 15 to health (Damage)

Belly Dancer / Kurina x 2 (usual opener)

Forest Rhino x 3
Giant Gorilla x 3
Forest Child / Athira x 1
Brave Mercenary / Dilate x 3
Beast King Rivara (sometimes use it as a soul as I think it gives +10 damage for the game to all?)
Gunner Girl Yuri x 3
Gun Princess Sword x 2
Shield Coatal / Fierte x 1 (somtimes play one of these as a soul as I have two)
Efreet x 1 (sometimes swap with dragons or more than one)
Salamander solider x 2
Blitz Beetles x 1

My deck has a lot of variations, I often open with more 2's. I really like the attenda fiera too, it does really well when I am up against hard times, which is most matches.
I don't like some rares like the last hunter / cassandra, but like I say whatever you put up here I can probably recreate more or less.

I do like the god of distar and the martial arts combo's I sometimes use, but their tanks are too slow often and just end up fodder, especially against alraune. I have a very good selection of the warrior cards too, so by all means if anyone has any specific idea's on what I could do :).
Last edited by Karrade on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby azurewrath » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:07 pm

I think I can see why you have problems with Alraune with your deck. It has no sense of flow at all. Almost all your units have horrible synergy with each other and your SS are also very....strange. I think the best thing to do is to watch a lot of replays in Folrart for now and see how others construct a deck that has an active flow.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Politikas » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:12 pm

drop catherina from souls, add efreet, or earth dragon.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Otonashi » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:26 pm

I would really, really recommend against using spores + Fairy dance. You should never use grimoires that early unless either they refund the SP, or they take away just as much SP from your opponent.

That, and your file is kind of all over the place. I think the biggest weakness is that you have too few full playsets (That means they can revive less, leave the field faster, and more different units will cost you more LP). You also have a large number of range 1 units, and keep in mind that you'll only ever be able to use three at a time because of space issues.

You would probably be better off using more damage in your soul skills, and I think you should take out most of the single copy units and focus on making sets. You don't seem to have any other grimoires, which makes you have to rely on the randomness of attack rolls and agi rolls to deal with problem units.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Karrade » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:47 pm

azurewrath wrote:I think I can see why you have problems with Alraune with your deck. It has no sense of flow at all. Almost all your units have horrible synergy with each other and your SS are also very....strange. I think the best thing to do is to watch a lot of replays in Folrart for now and see how others construct a deck that has an active flow.


Could you be more specific on the SS (I assume you mean soul cards)? I often experiment with wildly different soul cards, but always have those 2 big LP 3's in there.

The deck itself is a bit ‘rainbow’ but martial artists tanks are too slow, lacking any self healing (worse than monsters in every respect), while the good warriors tend to be a bit on the expensive SP side with little in the way of support, what is the point in using the lesser throw away warrior cards unless I rig up the soul cards to take advantage? I sometimes use the revolver king shelby (i have it x3) to immediately fire off a second or even third soul card, but this makes your LP's a bit fragile.

I know this kind of talk may all seem stupidity to a vet player, but I am a week old noob, and I can’t see the benefit in black and white of using worse cards with more synergy. Half the deck does have synergy, it is just a few of the range units, and frankly the best card in the game I’ve seen yet, the agi 4 brave merc card ,that doesn’t really have much syngery. Blitz beetles, I rarely use them, I was throwing in utility to the deck really, but you’re right there they are pointless it seems.

Politikas wrote:drop catherina from souls, add efreet, or earth dragon.


Thanks, if I can work in a reasonable amount of Life points still I shall do this :). That is all she is there for so far, at present I have more LP’s than my opponent but it usually just draws it out.

Otonashi wrote:I would really, really recommend against using spores + Fairy dance. You should never use grimoires that early unless either they refund the SP, or they take away just as much SP from your opponent. .


My hope was that with the 1 lp soul card they would be revived and then do the damage again :D, but sadly it is not the case. I’ve only opened with them for 2 matches now, lost both :/ so yeah you're right there, they are both out of my deck again now.

Otonashi wrote:That, and your file is kind of all over the place. I think the biggest weakness is that you have too few full playsets (That means they can revive less, leave the field faster, and more different units will cost you more LP). You also have a large number of range 1 units, and keep in mind that you'll only ever be able to use three at a time because of space issues.
.


Honestly I have always suffered from this, from the very first match. I have so many decent range 1 attackers from gowen, I am greedy for them, there are so few decent range 2 attackers and virtually no comparitive range 3 attackers for gowen (and I have nearly all their cards).

I can see what you’re saying because in most of my early matches I didn’t get to use most of my units, at first I was playing martial artists till I realized agi was god in this game :), so I’ve been trying to make a strat that ignores agi and goes for damage with a bit of damage reduction (rhino’s/revive).


Otonashi wrote:You would probably be better off using more damage in your soul skills, and I think you should take out most of the single copy units and focus on making sets. You don't seem to have any other grimoires, which makes you have to rely on the randomness of attack rolls and agi rolls to deal with problem units.


The best full sets I have are martial artists or warriors, I do have tree units for monsters but only the x1 monster healer sadly (forest child), compared to x2 warrior buffer (wise swordsman), and x3 martial artists healers (god of anger distas). The problem is monsters are the best, so far they have won me the most games, I have the tigers for level 2 units but they are so slow that they are pointless to use early game when agi rules supreme. Level 4 tree giants come around far too late to be of any use in most monster decks I’ve played, and even then who needs another tank when you have gorillas and rhino’s (possibly tigers too).
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Karrade » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:13 pm

I think I've just answered my own question in my ramblings. Maybe adding a tree unit on the back row :D, just wonder if I can run it and a tank 11 SP total + revives, before alraune can reach critical mass.
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby azurewrath » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:24 pm

The massive amount of LP is normally not needed. That is one part of flow. If you must have an unit die, you want something there that will give you a better footing for that turn as you are going to be down 1 unit for that turn. If your unit dies and you have a 3 lp SS there, you gain nothing and are just set back more as you are in a worse position and still won't gain momentum from your next two unit deaths. That is why most people in Folrart are in the 8-9 LP range (with the big 3 LP anchor last, not in the middle).

Your deck just doesn't mesh together as you have no way to pay for all you have in it. You have one of the most famously bad combos (Yuni and friends) in it. There aren't even triples of them so you won't actually get much benefit from them even if you manage to field them. The spores opening is just bad too. There isn't much you can kill for 25 damage and you are sinking lots of turns and SP in a nonkill. This really just gives people time to setup on you and lets the Alraune get bigger. Just try playing the Gowen starter or watching the Gowen starter for a lil if you want to see a deck with a nice flow (it has lots of level 2's which can be played almost every turn).
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Re: Alraune Counter, Equal AGI, Ruler of Crest soul questions.

Postby Karrade » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:50 pm

First off, putting in the efreet in the souls has won me my first match against alraune :), thanks again for that advice Politikas!

azurewrath wrote:The massive amount of LP is normally not needed. That is one part of flow. If you must have an unit die, you want something there that will give you a better footing for that turn as you are going to be down 1 unit for that turn. If your unit dies and you have a 3 lp SS there, you gain nothing and are just set back more as you are in a worse position and still won't gain momentum from your next two unit deaths. That is why most people in Folrart are in the 8-9 LP range (with the big 3 LP anchor last, not in the middle).

Your deck just doesn't mesh together as you have no way to pay for all you have in it. You have one of the most famously bad combos (Yuni and friends) in it. There aren't even triples of them so you won't actually get much benefit from them even if you manage to field them. The spores opening is just bad too. There isn't much you can kill for 25 damage and you are sinking lots of turns and SP in a nonkill. This really just gives people time to setup on you and lets the Alraune get bigger. Just try playing the Gowen starter or watching the Gowen starter for a lil if you want to see a deck with a nice flow (it has lots of level 2's which can be played almost every turn).


Thank you for taking the time to follow this up again. I see what you are saying, I herald from a different card game that rewarded attrition, I think i've been trying to recreate that here.

Like I said above though, i've removed the spores, you are right about them; if I could have revived the unit they might be worth it, but that is not how the soul cards worked out, I played two games and they were out when I lost both. I understand the Yuni combo is quite poor at first glance, but for a level 2 filler that you can buff up or sacrifice it isn't bad (it acts a bluff too), especially as it contrasts with the best DF I have seen yet for gowen, the 40 DF of shield coat, which mixes in nicely with the high HP no DF of other units. I can kind of see what you mean though, if I could just find a decent ranged for gowen that I was happy with using early I would swap them, maybe it doesn't exist though? I should perhaps wait till later in the match and SP up a bigger card or even a low lv rare?

Often i'll build around Yuni in the center, she is weak I realise, but either you'll have an opponent focus on her as the center point, and i'll be happy to have the distraction, or she'll be ignored, and when she gets her trio she is more useful.

Here is the current deck after previous advice.

Souls:

Witch Queen Catherine
Efreet
Bounty Hunter Elena
Forest Sorceror Anttila
Water Emperor Legrye

Main Deck:

Belly Dancer / Kurina x 2
Forest Rhino x 3
Giant Gorilla x 3
Tree Giant x 2
Forest Child / Athira x 1
Brave Mercenary / Dilate x 3
Beast King Rivara x 1
Gunner Girl Yuri x 3
Gun Princess Sword x 2
Shield Coatal / Fierte x 2
Efreet x 1
Salamander soldier x 2


So maybe the next step after your advice, is to drop cath out then, and put in another damage dealer, I will experiment thanks! :)
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