The reason for Backlash?

Advanced Rules Discussion

The reason for Backlash?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:00 pm

Looking through the glossary I noticed an interesting rule called backlash. As I understand it, when both players attempt to play the same card at the same time they cancel each other out and both are then sent to the cemetery instead.

So my question is... why have such a rule? Other then the less then deep explanation of "why not?" I'm personally drawing a blank here. However it is a very real possibility that I am simply missing some obvious issue that could arise if this sort of rule was not in place. Does anyone have any theories as to what situations might have caused this rule to be necessary, or just in general why such a rule might exist?
The bunnies of Lavato have special abilities, like 'Action Skill: Make Carrot Disappear.'
User avatar
DanTheTimid
 
Posts: 1394
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby Grain » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:06 pm

It promotes card diversity?

Perhaps in some lore-related way, its similar to the fact that two of the same named cards can't exist at once?

It stops people from playing over used cards?

These are all just guesses.

-Grain
User avatar
Grain
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby reydien » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:14 pm

My interpretation is that the rule has two main purposes. First, if a card is really good, in that it's getting played in most decks, Backlash helps to tone the effective power of that card down, since it's more likely you'll both try to play it and get backlashed: Sort of a built-in, dynamic balancing system. This also creates a level of strategy: "Do I play my OP Will o' the Wisp on Turn 2 to get the SP as early as possible, or will my opponent try the same thing and get us backlashed?"

Second, and perhaps the purpose I'm most intrigued about exploiting, if used properly Backlash effectively becomes a counterspell-like system: If I know there is an "A->B" card combo out there that is popular, and the B card is relatively cheap to play (or is in a faction my deck is already playing), I can stick a copy of the B card in my deck and when I see A get played, play B next turn in an attempt to stop the combo, or at least delay it a turn. I lose a turn where I could play a card I wanted to, but I either stop the combo, or if the opponent has multiple copies of B I at least get another turn to try and deal with the A-card or press my advantage.

Overall, I think it'll be one of those tricky mechanics that will create another level of strategy to when to play your cards, and help differentiate between a good player and a great player, in terms of who is better able to use backlash to their advantage (or simply avoid getting backlashed, intentionally or not).
"Select the pistol, and then, select your horse."
User avatar
reydien
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:42 am
Location: Norman, OK

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Two cards still can exist at the same time, just they can't be PLAYED at the same time so I don't think the lore reason really makes sense. As for the "it weakens overly strong cards" argument, this too seems a bit weak because it doesn't punish you for using the strong card after all both players are effected equally so no one was really punished, and the card will remain overly strong against anyone who doesn't run it.

I really like Reydien's second theory however. As he noticed, it does indeed seem to be a way to break up popular combos by splashing a few of the key card of the combo in your deck and waiting for the first card of the combo to show up. I'm not sure if this was why the rule was originally made, but I can certainly see alot of interesting effects on the meta coming about from this rule when used in such a manner.
The bunnies of Lavato have special abilities, like 'Action Skill: Make Carrot Disappear.'
User avatar
DanTheTimid
 
Posts: 1394
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby bahka » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:44 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:Two cards still can exist at the same time, just they can't be PLAYED at the same time so I don't think the lore reason really makes sense.


Cards that have a person's name on it(ie. Dark Overlord / Bahka) are unique and can not exist at the same time. If one is in play and you try to play it, you will get backlashed.

This is in addition to the backlash when both players play the same card at the same time, but I thought I would put it out there for clarification.
User avatar
bahka
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:49 pm

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby reydien » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:03 pm

bahka wrote:Cards that have a person's name on it(ie. Dark Overlord / Bahka) are unique and can not exist at the same time. If one is in play and you try to play it, you will get backlashed.

This is in addition to the backlash when both players play the same card at the same time, but I thought I would put it out there for clarification.


Now that is interesting. Does the copy of the card that's already in play also die, or does it become a race to see who can get their copy of a character out first?

I ask because the situation reminds me of how legends used to work in Magic: the Gathering: if there is a copy of a specific legend already in play, it used to be neither player could play another copy of the legend. When powerful legends entered the scene, it would become a race to see who could get their legend out first and protect him when he came out. Wizards of the Coast decided to change the rules a few years back, though, so now if you play a legend and there is another copy currently in play, both copies leave play immediately.
"Select the pistol, and then, select your horse."
User avatar
reydien
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:42 am
Location: Norman, OK

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby Grain » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:06 pm

reydien wrote:
bahka wrote:Cards that have a person's name on it(ie. Dark Overlord / Bahka) are unique and can not exist at the same time. If one is in play and you try to play it, you will get backlashed.

This is in addition to the backlash when both players play the same card at the same time, but I thought I would put it out there for clarification.


Now that is interesting. Does the copy of the card that's already in play also die, or does it become a race to see who can get their copy of a character out first?

I ask because the situation reminds me of how legends used to work in Magic: the Gathering: if there is a copy of a specific legend already in play, it used to be neither player could play another copy of the legend. When powerful legends entered the scene, it would become a race to see who could get their legend out first and protect him when he came out. Wizards of the Coast decided to change the rules a few years back, though, so now if you play a legend and there is another copy currently in play, both copies leave play immediately.


It's a race.

The first one to play their card keeps it.
User avatar
Grain
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:41 pm

Whoa, this is an extremely significant rule that I've never heard of, where are you guys hearing this? Or is this one of those things you've figured out from watching youtube videos of the Japanese game?
The bunnies of Lavato have special abilities, like 'Action Skill: Make Carrot Disappear.'
User avatar
DanTheTimid
 
Posts: 1394
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby bahka » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:55 pm

From Glossary:

Character Backlash


Only one instance of a Character can be in play at a time. If you attempt to bring out a second instance of a Character in play, you will cause a Character Backlash. The Character in play will be fine, but the second instance will be sent to the Cemetery automatically.
User avatar
bahka
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:49 pm

Re: The reason for Backlash?

Postby bahka » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:57 pm

Also, here is the definition of character since that term is used:

Characters


Characters are Units that have a specific name. This name is listed after their profession, separated by a slash mark. They are unique, and only one can be in a particular duel. For example, there is a Unit called “Knight of the 2nd Shrine.” This is a standard Unit, and many such knights can be on the battlefield. There is also a Character, “Leader of the 2nd Shrine / Shathia”. Here, “Leader of the 2nd Shrine” describes the Character’s profession, and “Shathia” is the character’s name. There can only be one instance of Shathia in a duel.
User avatar
bahka
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:49 pm

Next

Return to Vordore's War Room

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron