Beating Big Blue?

Strategies and Card File Construction

Beating Big Blue?

Postby DanTheTimid » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:31 pm

I don't know who was the first to perfect it, all I know is as of late Maniacal Soul is piloting it and absolutely dominating everyone he comes across. So I'm curious if anyone has any ideas for how to take down Big Blue.

For those not familiar with the file (and if so you must not play much cause it seems like Maniacal Soul is omni-present with how often he plays) the file revolves around Falkow's level 9 Legrye and level 4 Renally, the two Falkow 5 star rares of set 2, and thus is really only a viable strategy for the monstrously wealthy (its even more expensive to construct then endless night!). Making use of the fact Falkow has the best SP generators in the game it builds up sp extremely quickly and quickly forces its first 2 soul cards (the +3 to falkow level ones) to activate as well. It then drops Legrye (bouncing one of your units with its open skill if your field isn't already empty from a cyclone) whose auto skill prevents assassin from going off as well as allowing it to keep re-using the dryads it soon plays on the Renally that follows. Due to Renallys defense and Legrye's hp, both take a LONG time to be defeated even once, and thanks to Legrye's attack power and Renally's effect both deal out enough damage every turn to even take down other high levels with little trouble.

So then the question is, how would one go about defeating such a deck? Has anyone? When I last played him he had a 27 game win streak going and his current RP is MUCH higher then the highest RP anyone reached at any point in set 1 (I believe the highest RP reached in set 1 was 2054, ManiacalSoul currently has 2155 which might sound like that big a difference but once you get past about 1900 every win pretty much nets you +1 RP, every loss is pretty much atleast -50, often more depending on the RP of the person you lost too).

In theory the worst match up I can see the deck having is with a Dalos/Shade Lawtia card file since shade can really slow Legryes arrival down and Dalos can smash both Legrye and Renally for some insane damage. Whether or not ManiacalSoul has a counter for such a file I do not know, but in theory its the only thing thats come to mind. What about for the other spheres however, do they have any answer at all? If they do have an answer, is it one that can work against all decks, or would it have to be specifically tailored just to take down Legryes/Renally and thus struggle against anything else?

Just looking for peoples thoughts and experiences against this dominating force. I do not know ManiacalSoul's full card file and even if I did I would not share it on here, I'm sure he's put alot of work into perfecting it and deserves some privacy, so please keep comments related to either how you beat it, or how you would deal with the 2 big cards in question, Legrye and Renally, and not specifically ManiacalSoul's version of the file.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby angelatheist » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:16 pm

shade / dalos is a good idea, zombie lord zugateroza should also work well with its 100 damage skill and relative saftey against the grimore cards. Another idea might be to try to use succubus' night time ability. If done at the right time against any big creature deck it should win you the game.
For other spheres assassin skills are still useful even if you have to trade one of your level 2 or 3 cards for a dragon or Renally. It also helps if you can do it unexpectedly (like by not reviving a level 3 guy). After you get down to just the 3lp soul cards you should iczer attack as much as possible since adding more guys doesn't really help. If you're playing falcow and you can backlash a meaning of failure you can buy about 2 more turns. Try to avoid playing more than 2 or 3 units while your opponent is playing board clearing cards unless you want them to die.
These strategies should be useful against anyone playing a big creature deck, not just the falcow one.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby AshenPlanet » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:17 pm

I beat that deck a few days ago.

After my first card, I played 3 shades in a row to slow him down, and then did a merciless death.

I have dalos, but with the spirits, I didn't expect him to survive long enough to attack even once, so I played zombie lord in anticipation of the second one.
Zombie lord killed the second one along with a drain life grim.

He only had 2, so I cleared the board after that using zombie lord and broken iron soldier to deal with the renallys.
If he had 3 dragons, I would have lost though... :shock:

I don't know what you could do against 3 dragons, unless you had a second merciless death (I only have one).
My deck isn't spectacular, and I've lost to other decks, but the shades and the zombie lord seemed to work against the dragon.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Xovian » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:42 pm

When i was testing that file myself (which predated Mass Extinction), big gowen was capable of consistently handling it.
As i recall one of the games "panda" beat me quite badly when he was running his big gowen file. (Earth Dragon, Duel Wielder, Alligator :roll: )

The alligator and the "pig" are quite brutal to Renally, and shes far the stronger of the two units. With the side benefit of being an answer for Lebeau and Alphonse SS as well. Def removal or skills that allow the use of straight subtraction of hp work quite well.
Break Renally, you can break the file (similar theories work on dalos), the alternative is to consistently remove their recycles (great spirits).
It looses a lot of bite if something gets the focus long enough.
Alternately, coming out strong with mid-high levels of your own, has its uses as well.
Plus there's always the favorite "Burning Spore" for those hard core Refess out there, not to mention a decent AT creature+judgment hammer works nicely to remove the emp. Not to mention exploding spore (with the ability to get it back from the cemetery) is highly effective in its own right. Sooo good to ignore defense and to literally dismember those great spirits. Obviously for Falkow stat changers are also effective (Agi is key), black cat crossing effect as a SS can do wonders, and works for any file, and can be used by any file as well.

Of course Assassin and Invisible Druid SS are quite useful as well, after all if its good enough for him to use them, shouldn't you return the favor?
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Porky » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:24 pm

Lawtia is the only sphere that has a decent chance against the deck. Its all about sp drain, I want to see an endless night deck vs it, thats the only deck i believe that may consistently beat it. After eskatia and succubus is out, just spam shade to stop his cyclone, and continually drain sp. Or altenatively somehow protect mad priests-but that makes your deck weak to most others.

Big gowen stands very little chance.
Last edited by Porky on Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Romdeau » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:32 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:I would not share it on here, I'm sure he's put alot of work into perfecting it and deserves some privacy, so please keep comments related to either how you beat it, or how you would deal with the 2 big cards in question, Legrye and Renally, and not specifically ManiacalSoul's version of the file.

Shortly thereafter...
Porky wrote:Something he shouldn't have

I see a conflict of interest!

I happen to agree with Dan if that's relevant.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby darklogos » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:15 pm

I've said this in other threads but mid level gowen isn't practical. You can't really do anything consistent to that deck without fear of being 1 shotted by Renally. The speed is not there and the damage is lacking. The hp increase only helps a little. The only consitant dragon killing sphere is Lawtia. Dalos can do wonderful things if he is on the field. Many times Legyres open skill removes him. Eternal night with constant sp drain is nessecary to burn out all his big sp generating cards. To battle his rare deck you will need rares. Without rares you will loose once Renally and Legyre hit the field.

Burning spore won't work because Renally is level 5 so all you are doing is wasting your burning sun and hurting yourself. There is not guarantee that you will get spore off. He can easily play slyph or undine to mess up your spores timing. So you are just wasting sp.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Xovian » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:39 pm

darklogos wrote:Burning spore won't work because Renally is level 5 so all you are doing is wasting your burning sun and hurting yourself. There is not guarantee that you will get spore off. He can easily play slyph or undine to mess up your spores timing. So you are just wasting sp.


Renally is lvl4, not 5. Should look at the card first before saying such things. I've used her enough to know with out looking for both her field effects and her SS effects.

She is effected by Burning Sun.
And by unit placement you can force hits to hit the spore (Renally has a base range of 1), and even if they dont...you can make it go boom yourself, thats the beauty of it.
Not to mention, that it kills most great spirits making the return effect of the emp nill. Of course the big bonus is that it subtracts hp directly, thus Def is pretty useless.

Truth be told, her level vs Dalos' level is why i chose the Lawt file over the Falkow file. I figured burning sun as well as expert sorcerer would be used a bit more then they have been, not to mention several other abilities that effect all creatures regardless of level. Her being a level 4 was a big negative in my opinion. (The same could be said for the Zombie Lord, and for the same SP, his ability is quite useful)

As to the mid level gowen, i've been beaten and have beaten renally/emp files with it.
To each their own, as not every type of file is good for every player.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby darklogos » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:11 pm

oh well. I'm half asleep right now. Long day. Well I was wrong on Renally's level. I'm willing to admit I was wrong.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Porky » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:27 pm

Erm... anyone else have any ideas of strats that can beat big blue? Xov did u ever play Maniacal's Big Blue with your lawtia deck? If so howd that turn out?

Big refess cannot beat big blue, he has agi manipulation as all big blue decks have (not giving away specifics) and other tools. Judgement hammer cannot kill a legyre, coatl gets 1 shotted by legyre if i remember correctly, might be wrong but yeah.

Its not about renally but rather that Legyre is a huge pain to take down without assassin's and the such.

So any other ideas?
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