Beating Big Blue?

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby darklogos » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:43 am

I don't think a nerf on leygre is baseless really. If getting the 9 sp was so hard for big blue would there be an issue. I don't think there would be. For us to even to raise the issue points out something is wrong here. The problem is not the individual pieces. The problem is the huge strong force that it creates. The problem is return for your own benefit then using great spirit openers to perpetually buff your deck. The issue is should there the combo of returning and re-doing an opening skill exist. In the end either the great spirits get nerfed or leygre gets nerfed to create something balanced. The more and more I think about it is the abuse of opening skills that's the problem.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Romdeau » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:55 am

So yes, now that the players have established that Big Blue is completely broken, I'd like to hear an official response. Even if it's "well it's not really broken because you can do this and this and this to it."
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby darklogos » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:44 am

Some folks don't see it as a problem because of how high end the deck is and how many rare you need to make it.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Wintermute » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:02 pm

While true, I think we all know that isn't really a good excuse for a broken deck to exist, since it causes the game to stagnate.

Rarity is not a mechanic balance because it doesn't make the deck more fair or sporting... merely harder to get. A handful of players will still have the deck, and they'll be the only ones dominating. The result is a handful of players getting higher and higher levels and RP, while everyone else gets lower and lower by comparison, and a huge void in-between. Players leave, there's less diversity, and the game eventually dies.

Even in the light of rarity, it is still in the best interests of the game for ALL cards to be as balanced as possible. If that means releasing new cards to balance old ones (not exactly the most appealing choice) or issuing non-crippling errata for current cards (not very appealing either, but perhaps creates fewer issues in the long-term), then the company in charge should be (realistically) sorely tempted to do whatever is needed to bring the "rouge deck" to heel.

I've seen too many CCGs die to the rusty blade of imbalance.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby darklogos » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:01 am

In the end we have to be realistic to the bottom line of the company. They have to sell. That is part of their goal. At the same time if a deck doesn't have many weakness then more people will play leet or stop playing. I've stopped really trying to fight Big Blue. I tried 1 more time last night and I find I couldn't do it even with one of my better decks. I broke down his Renally wall but I got killed by leygre and Mystere.

Lets look at some underline issues. Why do people still play this deck. It can't be for fun. Not at this stage. The only reason to do it is rp and weekly gran. Limit those two elements and people have to change decks. If the cards are not going to change at least make it so that certain decks don't get played as much.

We can tell that the Japanesse developers haven't thought Big Blue and eternal night were such a big deal because they didn't try to patch things in the EX pack at all. ex Defu was the answer to Lebeau. What is the answer to leygre? The only thing I can think off is return lock. Some card that stops cards from being returned would stop leygre and end the deck. Return and sp drain are the only two non-soul skill meta tactics that are not counterable.
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Re: Beating Big Blue?

Postby Nehless » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:21 am

I just went through the entire topic again. After fighting Big Blue for a while now with my mid-level Renally deck, a few things to note:

1. Dryad Backlash - will stop Renally from achieving that unstoppable amount of pwnage
2. Sylph/Undine Backlash - stop the silly buffs the other guy keeps getting on owning your unit because Legyre has such high ATK
3. Lv3 and above owns

Against big blue, you don't hit souls. You don't let them build sp either. I think we've come to a conclusion that SP drain really slows Big Blue down from activating it's super ownage. But SP drain = death from any gowen rush or low level rush type decks. So through this topic, a triangle was formed saying that there is no overall system that you could add your own unique flavor to compete with these decks. Another to add is that assassin is OP as some people may say.

I think the simplest thing to do is to keep on with what you want to play. Be sure you have a good number of lv3+ as well to keep your stand hold against this deck. Cudgel is a really good unit to play along with plenty of other Refess units to bring the ownage to any big deck.

Cudgel and Angel's trumpet are a great addition as it doesn't stop just big decks but others around in Folrat from starters -> modified starters -> original decks.

If you don't have any way of incorporating Cudgel or Angel's trumpet, and are using one of the following starters... let me advise you to do the following:

Gowen Starter

20 x lvl damage cards early in the game really hit the big units hard! Make this a second and/or third soul and you'll do pretty well.
Add sylph and/or undine with two dryads if possible to backlash own. Don't be afraid to add a Chiruru soul. More lv3s than lv2s or a rogueest to boot! Make sure you can do this by round 3. Be careful of cyclone by round 3-4.

Falkow Starter

Same with the Gowen starter, you want to miss your first turn and bring out the sea hunter / magic scythe or other lv3 combo fast. More level 3s and Azure Dragon out to help and you've got the game on wrap. Be sure to predict undine/sylphs for backlash, this is really important.

Refess Starter

Cudgel Cudgel Cudgel, or a Chiruru soul. 20 x lvl damage cards are your friend here too.
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