More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Strategies and Card File Construction

More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby DanTheTimid » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:17 pm

So after finding some seeming issues with the lp3 soul abilities I decided to investing lp2 cards today and quickly found an area of concern. Several of the lp2 cards have clearly useful soul skills:

ex:
Dryad: lp2 - SS- Give DF+10 to all friendly units
Bellydancer / Kurina": lp2 - SS - Give AT+20 and DF+10 to one friendly unit.

Decent effects right? But then we have cards like:

Revolver Knight: lp2 - No SS
Deep Squid: lp2 - No SS
Eagle Soldier: lp2 - No SS

While I could see how if lp3 results in negative effects and lp1 results in positive effects that lp2 would result in no effects at all, it doesn't make any sense from a balance stand point that some lp2 cards WOULD have positive effects and others would have no soul skill at all.

Is this another mistranslation? Perhaps like Sea Hunter and Folrart Shield Knight this is a case of skills that are just missing (though we still haven't gotten any confirmation that those 2 just aren't skill-less either)?

Regardless figured I'd bring it up.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Kyoshi » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:23 pm

Maybe all this will make sense when we start playing the game. Maybe there is a method to this ,I'm going to say, "madness". I am slightly confused by this but never really took the time to look at this sort of deal and wonder about it. But maybe this is the style that was crafted from the Japanese game and it worked there and the game adapted around it. Then again it could happen just to be a mistranslation. Hopefully an admin will shed some light on it or time will tell. Either way I shall patiently await to hear the answer.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby BcDed » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:35 pm

Dan something that you should remember is that there is more to a card than just one of it's factors. While one might have a better soul ability for it's LP it might be a worse play because it might be a worse unit. One thing I've noticed from your posts is that you seem to think soul abilities are completely independent from the units normal stats but I don't think that is entirely true. Many have mentioned that picking a card as a soul card limits the number of copies you can use thus making it slightly worse as a regular unit but none seem to have mentioned the fact that in order for a soul ability to trigger the card must have been played killed and not revived. If you use a card just for the soul ability you would be costing yourself the card(keeping in mind that you can only have two), the play(since you can only set one card a turn), and an LP(thus putting you closer to death). While in many cases that may be worth the price but usually I think that in order to get the equivalent value you would have to actually play the card and not just sacrifice it for it's ability. While I may be wrong I'm fairly sure that the soul abilities should not be taken into consideration by themselves for these reasons.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Grain » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:34 pm

BcDed wrote:Dan something that you should remember is that there is more to a card than just one of it's factors. While one might have a better soul ability for it's LP it might be a worse play because it might be a worse unit. One thing I've noticed from your posts is that you seem to think soul abilities are completely independent from the units normal stats but I don't think that is entirely true. Many have mentioned that picking a card as a soul card limits the number of copies you can use thus making it slightly worse as a regular unit but none seem to have mentioned the fact that in order for a soul ability to trigger the card must have been played killed and not revived. If you use a card just for the soul ability you would be costing yourself the card(keeping in mind that you can only have two), the play(since you can only set one card a turn), and an LP(thus putting you closer to death). While in many cases that may be worth the price but usually I think that in order to get the equivalent value you would have to actually play the card and not just sacrifice it for it's ability. While I may be wrong I'm fairly sure that the soul abilities should not be taken into consideration by themselves for these reasons.


I said something similar.

This was DanTheTimid's response.
Last edited by Grain on Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Guest » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:44 am

While different from what others have mentioned, here's another major balance problem. Lawtia is overpowered, as almost no-one can kill a unit hit by 2 LeBeau Soul Skills near the end of game. Falkow might be able to bounce it, but I don't think that Gowen or Refess can possibly kill it.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby DanTheTimid » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:08 am

First off thank you for providing that link Grain, I feel I stated my case about as well as I can in that post so there's really no need for me to repeat myself on that issue.

As for the LeBeau thing, I have to say that is one insanely powerful soul skill in the late game. Still I wouldn't say the unit becomes indestructible, there are many cards that deal damage ignoring defense. Whats more there are cards that provide equally ridiculous attack buffs in the late game.

For a Refess example look no further then our first card of the week, Light Spearwoman. Her Penatrating Light will take out any units with 45 or less hp ignoring defense. If you have 2 of them out or keep one alive for another turn you can drop something as big as 90 hp. Sure it hits a random target, but if you have out other units and the Penatrating Light misses then they'll just ignore your super defense one and beat on the others to destroy your LP that way.

Regardless, if there's any imbalance its not with Lawtia but with LeBau itself since any clan can run it as a soul card.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Guest » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:46 pm

Good points there.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Exanthem » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:18 pm

azarael wrote:While different from what others have mentioned, here's another major balance problem. Lawtia is overpowered, as almost no-one can kill a unit hit by 2 LeBeau Soul Skills near the end of game. Falkow might be able to bounce it, but I don't think that Gowen or Refess can possibly kill it.

Gowen will be able to take out an over-buffed DF once the bug in Fire Tornado has been corrected. :evil:
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Grain » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:44 pm

Refess sounds more useless every day.
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Re: More Balance Discrepancies (missing soul skills)

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:50 am

Did you post about the Tornado bug yet? :P

Refess seems to be able to do a ton of damage with ranged attacks/skills. Other than that, it has a lot of meat shields.
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