who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby darklogos » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:57 am

So with actual deck construction what does the deck look like practically card by card? Also is what being said theory or tested? Like I said. I tested many Waball/Brave decks. In the end they all fall apart and can't compete in Folrart. Has anyone tested these decks are we back to guessing and theory. Without a deck layout and some real testing results I'm not really going to buy a person's answer.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby Kamerynn » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:47 pm

I did some testing; like I said, won 2 games with that opening. However, I'm not trying to say that opening with a lizard then Wabell is amazing. It definitely requires more testing, and as soon as I get 2 more Wabells and play it for a while, I'll report back. However, I'd like to encourage others to mess with it since my card pool is limited; it would likely work better with some other level 1 splash (shade/undine/slyph), which I don't have.

And ya, I think that a blitz soldier would be great as a later game card after Kurina. After all, once Kurina is in play the file really only has level 1s left to set, so losing a sphere level is no big deal. If I had even one blitz, let alone 3, I'd give it a try =P
Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby ThunderBlade » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:32 pm

;a40

Actually, I'm pretty confident in my new File. I picked up 2 of each, for a nice rez if one goes down.
Let's start with Brave. At Level 6, he's a bit slow coming out, but the first card in my Soul File is Dryad Soldier, so it kicks your Gowen Level up by 3. Useful, no? With that, it's an easy enough task to bring Brave in.
The turn he goes in, I play a Dryad, boosting his Def up to 30. Very hard to kill at this point.

As for Wabell...Ahhh, Wabell. I didn't originally use him, but I actually found a pretty amazing use for it. See, by using him in a multi-sphere deck, your Gwoen Level becomes less important. He's only Level 4, and again, I use Dryad Soldier to raise my Gowen Level, use 1 SP to get it high enough, and play him. The nice thing is, you can rez him even if your Level is down to 0.

Helpful?

;a40
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby Logress » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:48 pm

Annathered's been experimenting with a Wabell deck, we took it for a spin against a Falkow starter and she outlasted me. Of course, I didn't have an Assassin or any way of returning a Level 4 card. Basically, she put a Dryad Soldier in her Soul Cards, but not necessarily in the first slot (I don't think it would have been effective in the first slot, actually). Then she played a Gowen Rush deck as normal, which gets a great early start against most opponents. Once she had her setup she used Salamanders and such, but she always kept at least 2 SP in reserve. When she hit the point when her Dryad Soldier would naturally be set off, she summoned Wabell that turn with that SP. Now she had one big unit on the field, and maybe a leftover or two from her Gowen rush opening. Next turn she got the SP back from the cards that went to the graveyard to set off that soul skill in the first place, and she used it to summon another big level 4 unit.

So she went from Gowen rush, and the moment it began to lose steam, transitioned into big Gowen, and never spent a turn with a Gowen level below 3. If I had an assassin soul skill, I would have been able to use it, but by then my Vordore strategy was disrupted by her hard hitting units, and since she had another big level 4 out the turn right after Wabell, that one would still be around even if I assassinated the blind dragon. Now, with these big units out, her card turn over decreased, allowing her to build up SP. She ended up with plenty of SP to fuel her end game.

It worked out pretty well, overall. I did get unlucky a few times, but I think it was a viable deck. Seems a bit odd to me, I think I'd be tempted to make it an early game card (forcing the enemy to rush through his soul card to his assassin before he'd like, throwing off his timing) or late game card (when you don't plan on putting out any more units after him, and the enemy's gone through his assassins.)
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby ThunderBlade » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:02 pm

Oh no, in my Wabell deck the Dryad Soldier was 2nd or 3rd, I don't recall which. I keep it first in my pure Gowen deck so that I can have Brave on the field by turn 3 or 4.
But that does sound like a very viable strategy for Wabell, although I would have to create an entirely new File because my current one is built not around rushing, but around a more late-game approach. I might just make one for Wabell, though.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby darklogos » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:44 pm

Everything that has been said I've tested and it doesn't work in Folrart's common meta. Like I said in my first early Brave or Waball doesn't work. The issue about splashing Waball isn't that its possible its that you can do a lot better for 5 sp and a soul skill or 8 sp. Brave is biggest problem is that he has to little hp for his level. Why do I say that? In an age of anti-def tech being in every deck his 20 def doesn't last against major decks.

Recently I've been running big gowen. I made a joke deck and called it "Its Gowen over 9000!" The purpose of the deck is to see how well does a level 9 based Gowend deck work. What i found out was interesting. I coped a bit of tech off of OX786 and bam I had a decent deck. When I replaced Brave in the deck with Earth dragon the win ratio went up. I found that when it comes down to investing in big Gowen it comes down to multi attack or super huge damage. Bazagar gives me super huge damage for a lot less then Brave and he doesn't have harsh disads like waball. I hit Bazagar with a dryad and he last longer the Brave a majority of the time. I did another round where I took out brave and replaced him with Fire dragon. Again the win percentage turned out better. Fire Dragon getting in a row attack every turn is useful inspite of him being slow. But unlike brave he cranks out aoe damage.

Brave's and Waball concepts inherently don't work with Gowen well. Brave lacks the offense of other Gowen units that are 1 level below him and 1 level above him. Brave doesn't even compete well against other Gowen level 6 cards. Thunderbolt has a slash and Efferet has an aoe for 3 sp.

To be fair I will try the Waball into gowen rush again. This is the deck idea I showed Anna when I showed her my Wabell deck before. With a casual Falkow monster deck she beat it up. I have the philosphy that if your going to build your soul skills around 1 card it better be one strong card and I can't justify that with waball. Since the ex cards have been out I've seen Brave twice and Waball not at all. I haven't even seen people who I know have the cards play them.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby Logress » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:13 am

5SP + a soul card is a bit expensive, but it's not just what a card costs you, but also when. What made Anna's deck so effective was the timing of going from rush to big Gowen. Since you don't bring out Wabell until the turn the 2nd soul card's going off, and that doesn't happen until 2 or 3 units are sent to the cemetery (and if that's happening Rush has either failed or run out of steam), it has a kind of self-regulating timing. There's an extra level of this built into the fact you're going to have SP from the cards that went to the cemetery for the next turn, so you also have another big (4+) unit drop built in.

And while yes, an Assassin will effectively put you 8 SP in the can, Anna found that she actually had plenty of SP after Wabell. This is probably because the Rush start is pretty SP-lite, and then having two big units out slowed down the rate of revivals and lessened the need to keep putting out more units. An assassin may have ruined her day, but with the SP she had saved up, not necessarily.

Okay, so there's also one other little trick to this deck that I'm not specifying, but I'm sure you all can figure it out.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby Kamerynn » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:51 pm

This a bit tangential, but there's one thing about brave/wabell that isn't being considered. They're decent cards, in my opinion, since it's easy to get 3 of them. Yes, efreet looks better than brave... except for the fact that I will likely never have 3 efreet. The same goes for fire dragons, earth dragons, etc. When I buy 3 ex packs, I get 3 braves; if I buy 3 boxes of cards, I'll likely still not have 3 efreet or dragons (in fact, I may not even have 1).

So, while it seems like these cards aren't quite as good as some of the options some of you have, they seem better than any of the options that I have. If I had those dragons and w/e else, I wouldn't be replacing them with brave. However, I'm replacing *crap* with brave. He seems like an awesome card to me; it is, after all, my only level 6 that I'll have 3 of (as soon as my $10 paypal clears). Sure, you may not get an amazing win ratio out of using brave... but *I* will, because my standards for an amazing win ratio are much lower than yours :P

So, yes, this card isn't doing much for you people who already have all the gowan cards you need. For those of us that can't afford to obtain all those cards, investing in brave/wabell seems like an amazing idea. After all, we can get a set of 3 decent cards without spending mega-cash. Perhaps the moral of the story is that these cards will only help us cheap/poor bastards and not you folks that spend a lot. I'm certainly OK with that. ;)
Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby darklogos » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:46 pm

To most people I have spent a lot of money. I still don't have a lot of options I would like. I don't know if your in Folrart or not but appealing to crest players will only make people regretful. In other words if its only good for Crest what are you going to do about that card for the other 99% of your dueling career. I'm a trainer and I want to say "Gowen EX is going to help you in the long run go out and get it!" I can say that about Reffess Ex for sure and a little bit for the Falkow and Lawtia. I may have felt better about the Gowen EX if they had soul skills worth using.

I'm going to fight annathered's deck and see what she did and if there is anything i can tinker with.
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Re: who has gotten brave/waball to work?

Postby Shrimpyrice » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:41 pm

Hey all,

Well, I'm sure some of you have seen me out there in Folrart tinkering with Wabell, and various strategies to make him work. I should say that while I don't have all the cards (or even most of them), I do (or should) have a sufficient amount of cards to construct a Wabell deck. While he has great stats, and can really help in a late game scenario (after the sin drops), there seemed to be too many situations where I really wished he was another card. He simply isn't versatile enough to justify draining all your Gowen levels. If it reduced it by four, then maybe his usefulness would increase, since I could plan ahead, and drop some units the turn immediately following. As it stands, he really serves as a final drop, unless you have a large store of SP, or want to risk losing him to an assassin soul skill. I find that if I play him too early, I'm simply playing catch up the rest of the game. Unfortunately, as a late game drop, he kind of falls flat. As stated, he simply lacks versatility. He's a hitter, and can hit any enemy unit as long as he's in the front row, but can't contend with other units that also come out around that time. He has no AOE (in case you are swarmed), no def busting (for Renally or LeBeau'd units), no way to increase his damage (though 50 isn't exactly insubstantial) and is kind of a slow dude, so he gets slammed by other units fairly easily. I found that in most situations, Bazgar probably would have served me better. I'm not sure what else to say about him, as I still have some tinkering to do; Anyway, I'd just thought I'd share what I've noticed so far.
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