Set 3 Card Errata!

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Wintermute » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:33 am

Shrimpyrice wrote:The Dalos nerf makes the most sense to me. The card simply provided too much firepower at level 5 and was not only relatively easy to obtain, but also relatively easy to put out. The fact that most players would include one or two cards as a Dalos Contingency Plan in each deck (Two fire arrows, two undines, etc.), suggests that the card was perhaps a bit too strong. Furthermore, it's not like he really got hit that badly. He still packs one hell of a whollop with his situational-appropriate damage, it's just that he can no longer erase my field in one go.

Very true. 100%!
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Peralisc2 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:36 pm

Dalos is in the lawtia starters? ... oh boy, i will have to link people to this thread so they stop crying without reason.
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Azul » Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:06 am

What I'd like to say about Shade:
-1 SP still makes a difference in terms of ability creatures.
If there was a level 0 with the combat stats of Shade, it wouldn't be useless. It'd be situational. Likewise for Shade's nerf. It went from essential to situational. Shade doesn't have to be a top tier card, even if it used to be.

Edit to hopefully sound less like a prick.
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Harion » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:53 am

just saw puffball's changes in action

as expected, puffy here died without even being able to generate sp
or even just shed it's hair

a simple sneeze killed it before it even had a use
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But since winning is fun, I can't help but to make winning my goal.
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Bear killing axe-man was meant to be what it's name suggests - a killer unit. Sadly, there were no bears to kill in Alteil.
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby AshenPlanet » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:47 am

Refess: Rapid Shot Magic Archer Lion Baron / Zagar, Kesaran Pasaran, Defensive Manuvers,

Most changes... least sensical...
Yes, archer and zagar could use upgrades, but what about the rarer refess cards? Earnst is a 5 star useless piece of garbage, why not upgrade him?
Puff ball - one of 2 great spirit nerfs. They should refer to them as simply spirits now: Sylph, undine, salamander still great spirits, shade, puffy, will-o-wisp now invisible spirits...
Defensive manuevers - this is a nice upgrade for falkow and lawtia decks, renally is even more broken now... but, for refess? not a big deal really.
I don't think you'll see many more refess decks using defensive, but you will see more renally decks using it since it's a much better option than dryad or sorcer guard and easier to implement than catherina.

Lawtia Shade, Chaos Ogre / Dalos,

Much more sense in these nerfs - the dalos nerf is not as big a deal as the shade nerf.
Dalos was too strong, but even nerfed he's still useful, just not a must-have.
Shade was rendered useless, and I suspect will be seen as often as will-o-wisps now...
Not neccessarily a bad thing, but since shade was lawtia's No. 1 defense vs. falkow and big creature decks, I suspect you'll see a lot more assassin souls in lawtia decks now to keep them viable.
In my eyes, here's the real problem: every color has shield-breaking cards, if you run against a lebeau soul, you can use your shield-breaker, if you don't, you don't need to use him/her/it.
Against big creatures, shade slows them down, it doesn't single-handily defeat them as assassin/salamandersoldier or shield coat souls do.
But the problem with those souls is that if you are facing a wienie swarm deck, you will lose, period, since you can't choose not to use your souls.
This leads to the poorly implemented strategy game fix of 'a' beats 'b' beats 'c' beats 'a' cycle.
With shades, you could choose to play them or not - against big sp, use them, against wienie swarm, hold them in your hand...
If every color had a way to slow down big sp decks like shades, you wouldn't see other colors using shades to slow down big sp, and you wouldn't need to nerf shades.
Every color has shield-breakers, so you don't see every color playing dispel or corruption; you don't need souls to deal with def, you shouldn't need souls to deal with big sp.
Having soul skills being the only defense against a deck type is a bad implementation of stategic design.

Falkow Water Emperor / Legrye,

Again, a deserved nerf, but the big question is, of the 3 most powerful cards from all 3 sets, rennally, legrye, and dalos (in that order), why did the 2nd and 3rd most powerful get nerfed, while the top of the heap, rennally not only did not get nerfed, but instead got boosted by a 1 sp defensive upgrade and new def boosting souls??
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Romdeau » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:25 am

I'm just going to respond to the comment about "Ernst" being garbage-if you buff this guy with a dryad or blessing or give him any kind of reasonable support, he goes from being decent to a migraine for the opponent. I'm not going to go too far off topic with this, but don't underestimate Ernst-he can be a menace.
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Zanador » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:13 am

And fluffball never was a great spirit, the 6th is dryad. :)

About those things you wrote to shade: Assassin SS is a double edged sword, it never was a secret, so if you use it, you willingly accept the fact that it can backfire against swarm decks... you could just use return SS like invisible druid or any falkow stuff and have nearly the same effect against big decks and much better efficiency against swarms. Its just your fault assuming that all lawtia has as an answer for the missing sp drain is assassin (also, i really hate succubi much more when it comes to sp drain :/ ). Lawtia has many other ways to drain SP, they were just left unused since shade could get rid of nearly any free SP

Ah, Renally not being nerfed: souls with 999AT boost, mozartkugel to deal with anything that has def at all, and even more other damaging skills that nullifies def is the way i think she got nerfed. Its true that i couldnt play much since Set 3 came out, but i dont think renally is as common and as strong as she used to be in big blue (personal oppinion here... also even if i dont have the cards to counter her, many other players do, so if she isnt in every deck, she is a lesser threat to me too).
Something must be wrong with me. I'm giving advices to someone i should kill.
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby AshenPlanet » Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:21 am

I'm just going to respond to the comment about "Ernst" being garbage...


Well, he's not as bad as armed citizens, but many other refess cards are better than him, and certainly every other 4 or 5 star of every color is (with the possible exception of proposition)...
He can be playable if you build around him, but then again, so can most cards.
My point is that even the old zagar pre-upgrade was more useful than him, and he can be buffed too.
Zagar (pre-or post- upgrade) with silvern wyvern or sylph >>> Earnst with dryad or blessing.
Refess is lacking compared to the other colors, but why upgrade a card that was already one of their better cards instead of choosing some of their crappy cards to upgrade?
Buffing 2 basic cards, a card that helps other colors more than refess, and nerfing their main sp generator (the bunny is more expensive, and you can't buy the angel anymore); I think refess got the short end of this stick...
But, at the end of the day, better something than nothing...

Its just your fault assuming that all lawtia has as an answer for the missing sp drain is assassin...

Not assuming anything here.
Druid soul is not as useful against either big sp or wienie swarm, try it (you need to waste 2 or 3sp for a soul bind or petrify, 1 card slot, and 1 turn of not dropping another creature).
Yes, if they izcer attack you, it can be more useful, but if they do that, there are many better options out there, like rennally soul, eskatia soul, annarose soul, skel warrior soul, or even dical soul.
Btw, I've used dical in my soul list for months, and he did not get upgraded; all they changed was his descriptive text, his soul always worked the same way it works now...

Succubus will never drain sp from any experienced player, and almost never drain any sp from inexperienced players, it just doesn't happen often...
Yes, there many ways to drain sp like mad priest, defau, etc., which can situationally be better even than pre-nerf shade, but shade was a cheap answer, and lawtia's equivalent to sylph, undine, salamander, etc., and the other answers require you to have a creature in play that survives long enough to get used.
When I played mad priest in my lawtia deck, it usually drained more sp than the shades did, but there are some decks it just doesn't fit well into.

But, at any rate, my point wasn't that the shade nerf was bad; I think it's a warranted nerf for the reason they said it needed nerfing: many colors splashed it to deal with big sp.
My point was WHY it needed nerfing.
If every color had their own way of slowing down big sp decks, they wouldn't have needed to play shades.
And, while slowing down a deck with shades was never as effective as killing that deck with assassins, shades let you make strategic decisions during game play rather than hail marys in your soul list which hurt you against other types of decks.

With Rennally, 999 attack or shield-break creatures can't help you if that creature dies before it gets to attack...
Rennally can pinpoint attack most creatures that are threats to it before they get to go...
She's not invincible, but she is the closest thing to it in the current 3 sets of cards, certainly more so than legrye, dalos, shade, or puffy, the 4 cards that did get nerfed...
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby teasel » Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:28 am

why upgrade zagar instead of ernst? maybe because zagar is in the starter and therefore a card that everybody owns while ernst is a 5 star rare that nobody does?
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Re: Set 3 Card Errata!

Postby Peralisc2 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:46 pm

Well they could have made wisp with a smart OP skill : You get Sp + 0->2
Shade OP skill : Rival Iczer gets SP - 0->3

Then the game actualy gave you a chance to be as annoying as with the 2 spirits as you are with combat monk or other annoying crap.

Another bad thing is that the shade soldier dosnt drain an automatical 1 SP /turn, neither does it do -2 SP to rival iczer for 1 SP.
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