A Little Challenge

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Shirozaki » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:21 am

GonFreeces31 wrote:It's kinda silly cause you could also just call every Refess file, "just another start skill buff spam file" or Gowen files "just another damage spam file."


Mid and big refess do well without start skill spam.
Proper Pixy-lock files are lacking damage, but excel at field control.
Those are dominating files in the spheres.

Tell me about a different identity for falkow that is dominating.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Icyglare » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:03 am

Nobody is seriously thinking that Falkow is just return spam right? :|
-
When I'm playing Serpents vs a Jack/Bringer/Gowen Heroes file, just how much return should I be spamming?
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby sunbunman » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:12 am

Icyglare wrote:Nobody is seriously thinking that Falkow is just return spam right? :|
-
When I'm playing Serpents vs a Jack/Bringer/Gowen Heroes file, just how much return should I be spamming?


'Poor deluded icy, using wrath once also counts as return spam
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby ayman » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:26 am

Guys,

First of all I did not want to start OP return discussion. All I wanted to see İf the deck can survive without return mechanic.

One thing about return tho, I understand most falkow players does not wanna give up return. It is a big part of their strategy. On the other hand, just put yourself in lvl 3 rush player. You got beaten over and over with same strategy without being able to play your own game. I am sure playing returns and getting many wins are fun. But playing against return many times a day is not.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Shirozaki » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:27 am

Serpents have almost died out and are far from dominating. Just throwing that out.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby sunbunman » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:31 am

ayman wrote:Guys,

First of all I did not want to start OP return discussion. All I wanted to see İf the deck can survive without return mechanic.

One thing about return tho, I understand most falkow players does not wanna give up return. It is a big part of their strategy. On the other hand, just put yourself in lvl 3 rush player. You got beaten over and over with same strategy without being able to play your own game. I am sure playing returns and getting many wins are fun. But playing against return many times a day is not.


okay okay fine, i'll see if running the file without returns is valid or not, but i know the open can't function smoothly without at least a minimal quantity of early return support. I'll give it a go, but take note that a lvl 3 rush can easily overrun return based files with enough sp gen, i've done it countless times with my buncles (the onli return based file it has lost to is primclone, but srsly who still runs that?).
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:13 am

I mean saying "falkow files don't work without returns" is silly cause that's like the point. Falkow was designed to have manipulation abilities. Just like how the blue color in MtG was designed to be focused on things like cancel and unsummons and stuff. That's how you make a rich diverse game by making different colors. It's like saying, "Why don't you build a Solar Kingdom file that doesn't use start skills," or "play a Gowen file that doesn't win by doing damage lots of ways". You wouldn't, because Refess is about start skill spam (star dragons existence does not change the focus of a sphere) and Gowen is about damage spam. Start skill buffing spam and damage spam has been a mechanic that's been good since forever. The whole point of playing a sphere is to use the strengths of that sphere to try to win games. So if you make a Gowen deck you pack it full of kick-ass, if you make a lawtia file you pack it full of tricks and sp degen, if you make a refess file you pack it full of start skill spam. If you take away the manipulation abilities then there is no reason to use falkow units. You might as well use Refess units and start skill spam to hell.

Like you guys seriously lack design perspective.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Shirozaki » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:28 am

GonFreeces31 wrote:I mean saying "falkow files don't work without returns" is silly cause that's like the point. Falkow was designed to have manipulation abilities. Just like how the blue color in MtG was designed to be focused on things like cancel and unsummons and stuff. That's how you make a rich diverse game by making different colors. It's like saying, "How why don't you build a Solar Kingdom file that doesn't use start skills," or "play a Gowen file that doesn't win by doing damage lots of ways". Start skill buffing spam and damage spam has been a mechanic that's been good since forever. The whole point of playing a sphere is to use the strengths of that sphere to try to win games. So if you make a Gowen deck you pack it full of kick-ass, if you make a lawtia file you pack it full of tricks and sp degen, if you make a refess file you pack it full of start skill spam. If you take away the manipulation abilities then there is no reason to use falkow units. You might as well use Refess units and start skill spam to hell.

Like you guys seriously lack design perspective.

And I proposed you files that stray from this path of the sole identity of a sphere and yet manage to dominate.
MTG has more than one control aspect.

What about Position control?
What about engage control?
What about AGI control?

Those aspects of control have so much variety to offer, yet haven't been explored the least in favour of something that has been complained about since day one.
Why bother reforming the enemy's field when you can just weaken it and smash it from behind?

Look at frog, arguably one of the most useful support units in Falkow, employing an entirely different style of control that is by now more common in Refess than in Falkow. What is he most commonly used for? Diondora. (Yes Icy, he is used in Serpents as well, I ackowledge that)
If you are saying that a sphere should only have one identity, in a game with endless possibilities and mechanics, then I pity the future of Alteil, because an important member of the testing team has a horizon as broad as the tip of a razor blade. A direction should not dictate an identity.
And if you believe following one path is good from a design perspective, then am afraid sooner or later you will run out of options, whether you want it or not.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Icyglare » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:37 am

Shirozaki wrote:Serpents have almost died out and are far from dominating. Just throwing that out.

A lot of files seems to be dying out because we're not in the middle of a collection event (I came across some guy using a refess/falkow archmage file, 17xxrp with 6 wins so far.... till I ended it :D). Mid Falkow is out there, including mine and no returns... but I do have a Gowen account with Fire Arrows, who cares what cards are in it, it's a fire arrow file now.
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Re: A Little Challenge

Postby Shirozaki » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:43 am

Well, I am not saying Serpents are useless or anything, I've seen you play, even with Refugee citizen, and it was hilarious and good. What I'm saying is that among the files that are played, Serpent has long left its state of prime for newer, more recent ones.
While I can't bring up "loldata" like Gon likes to do, this is of course just my experience from playing, observing and talking with the people from the chat.

Mid blue (Take to the sky) mods I have seen surprisingly many though.
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"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" - Inscription above the gates of Alteil
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