My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby Peralisc9001 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Nobody said they need better starters in the beginner arena. Try reading before posting.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby AquasFire2 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:31 pm

first of all its not just meta because i win and dont run meta there is also experience. And i do believe that keeping the cards at the beginning level 1-3 will teach them general and basic flow.

A starter deck is suppose to be a basic deck.Thats simple and teaches the basics of each sphere. Not a deck you should be running to level 100.
If dont agree i guess it must be an opinion.

The reason i said get a prebuilt when leave because the transition to folart is hard and they should get an award for working through all those levels.
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby methebest » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:54 pm

i still think the lawtia starter should be a mid file
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby Icyman2 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:56 am

Ah ****, I didn't see this before I posted my starter files. **** ME.
Whatever, it's more organized this way.
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby Peralisc9001 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:05 am

methebest wrote:i still think the lawtia starter should be a mid file

One without the odd mix i hope!
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby fargone » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:14 pm

I would like to see a cross-section of starters for each sphere, including a big, mid and rush file.

The imagination to create and actual ability to play mid and big files has been held in check by only having rush files as starters for too long. The inherent dangers of starting everyone with a rush file include but are not limited to: people misunderstanding balance, creating a dull play environment, limiting game experience, limiting learning experiences.

Many people are of the belief that big files are hard to play, but this is really a matter of inexperience created by a total rush environment in the early stages. This not only stunts creativity and diversity but also creates an obvious rift between paying players and free players where free players, unable to build the big or mid files with their modified starters feel an unfairness when facing files they can neither build nor understand (I am not justifying this view, but merely recognising it).

If the game is going to have 3 main file types (bigs mids and rush), then all should be represented in each sphere. This gives new players a choice of 12 playing styles when they begin. This may also help alleviate the old argument of "this sphere rules, that sphere sucks" by creating a learning environment where gowen may have the best rush file, but refess may have the best bigs, all of falkow may totally mess with any rush file, but mid lawtia chews it up, etc.
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fargone wrote:I realise this is completely off topic, but Icy deserves the limelight more than others. Some of whom dominate the forums with their endless posts.


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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby Icyman2 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:43 pm

fargone wrote:I would like to see a cross-section of starters for each sphere, including a big, mid and rush file.

The imagination to create and actual ability to play mid and big files has been held in check by only having rush files as starters for too long. The inherent dangers of starting everyone with a rush file include but are not limited to: people misunderstanding balance, creating a dull play environment, limiting game experience, limiting learning experiences.

Many people are of the belief that big files are hard to play, but this is really a matter of inexperience created by a total rush environment in the early stages. This not only stunts creativity and diversity but also creates an obvious rift between paying players and free players where free players, unable to build the big or mid files with their modified starters feel an unfairness when facing files they can neither build nor understand (I am not justifying this view, but merely recognising it).

If the game is going to have 3 main file types (bigs mids and rush), then all should be represented in each sphere. This gives new players a choice of 12 playing styles when they begin. This may also help alleviate the old argument of "this sphere rules, that sphere sucks" by creating a learning environment where gowen may have the best rush file, but refess may have the best bigs, all of falkow may totally mess with any rush file, but mid lawtia chews it up, etc.


Mid files are inherently played like rush files, except sometimes without an immediate offense option and most of the time with more loose sp. They are really not any different.
Big files are a problem for a couple of reasons.
1. newbies like to fire arrow turn 3
2. without early offense, a lot of files get owned
3. newer rush units are developing a lot of grimbane and anti big counters
4. a lot of removals in current meta
5. big files tend to be a matchup thing. you only have enough filespace to pack a few counters
6. big files vs other big files are as boring as ****

I can play big red moderately well and those are some things I've noticed.
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby GonFreeces31 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:28 pm

You are never going to see a starter that's a tribal file (outside of refess) so you can pretty much toss out the idea of doing things like magic dolls or merc nation starters. Starters are just supposed to be collections of cards that work together somehow to introduce the game to new players.

You're also never going to see starters that are mid or big files because they are far too difficult for new players to learn and use.
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby Peralisc9001 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:46 pm

Those assumptions aren't necessary.

During the entire history of alteil, many new players included big units and did improve their winning chances by that.
~ Retired ~
perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
http://www.educatinghumanity.com/2012/0 ... anies.html
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Re: My starter deck ideas and Discussion

Postby fargone » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:03 pm

Gon and Icyman, that opinion makes me sad indeed. Big aren't hard to play, and what better way to learn the inherent dangers of early fire arrows than mid or big files? What better way to learn how to manage sp than a mid file? Rush file are boring, (maybe we need to cater to everyone, not just yourself Icyman?).

also... wouldn't better tutorials including one for each starter file help alleviate those issues? Maybe even remove the issues altogether?

People leave by level 10, but you still think the current starter set up is good - why? Is it possible those who do leave do so because its boring facing only 1 of 4 files? You also have the issue of one bad starter ruining it for the whole sphere when you limit the number of starter files (and styles).

This is just an idea anyway. None of us here actually have any say on what happens at the end of the day.
GonFreeces31 wrote:
fargone wrote:I realise this is completely off topic, but Icy deserves the limelight more than others. Some of whom dominate the forums with their endless posts.


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