Comparison

Strategies and Card File Construction

Comparison

Postby AngelicDeath » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:05 am

This is not a nerf this buff that thread nor a complaint thread.

After Anima's Russell post I decided to go over the card list for underappreciated cards. Anyway, is there an inherent reason mermaid shield soldier seems so much better than Folrart shield knight? I shouldn't say seems as it looks to me like blatant power creep but perhaps the whole "solar kingdom" subtype warrants his less than stellar stats for a lv 2 2 star when compared directly to mermaid shield since her subtype is much less common in terms of sheer numbers.

What do you think? To me it seems as if we strayed away from the standard if you want to refer to sets 1 and 2 as the baseline.

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Re: Comparison

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:16 pm

Shield knight is understated.

A lot of cards were nerfed in early sets prior release. That is long before they knew what they were doing. Jp guys were helping to achieve this.

Imo give shield knight full stats.
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Re: Comparison

Postby gadu » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:22 pm

Shield Knight could be a free revive and I still don't think he would be better than Mermaid Shield and my opinion of Mermaid Shield is not very high. (Mermaids are to me what TGC is to Angelspawn if that matters).
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Re: Comparison

Postby Callonia » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:35 pm

If it have a label named Solar Kingdom?

STRIKE IT WITH NERFBAT!

If its colored yellow?

STRIKE IT WITH NERFBAT!

Anything else? Let's modify it a little bit so it can murder refess on daily basis.

Good examples like Wisp is an victim of this mentality. They refused to let it to have ability to rescue units on open phase until like set 9 or 10 where it finally can protect 30 or 40 hp units against bringer open.

Another excellent example of this is, Inspiration, you get punished super harsh especially if you're facing lawtia and they open turn 1 shade with 0 thought.

Jp version. lvl 1, You get 2 sp. No BS allows an turn 2 lvl 4 drop and a turn 3 revive if they kill that lvl 4 and summon a 2nd lvl 4 on turn 4. Alteil US actively work against refess because they don't wanna let them be able to build up their field. Its too common of a trend.

Don't get me wrong, I use shield knight plenty back in the day but it's not really worth the SP to revive him so I just let him fade to cemetery after he dies even once much more sp efficient that way for me in certain decks. So that a useful lvl 4 can take his place which can take more hits than he does. xD
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Re: Comparison

Postby Muklas » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:07 pm

Buncles, Shrines and Mid-Solar Kingdom are doing fine, so what are you talking about?
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Re: Comparison

Postby fargone » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:17 pm

Logress doesn't like walls (tanks). He has stated this in the forums years ago.


Shield knight is a level 2 wall. He suffered and continues to suffer for his role. Refess has never been allowed to be what it is - a stall while building momentum before destroying you file. Why? That is not a play style he (logress) likes, and people complain (like that's any different). In fact, I think the number of complaints about guardian left a scar on him that never healed and solar kingdom still bleeds from it.
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Re: Comparison

Postby AqvasFire2 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:24 pm

Fargone,
Muklas wrote:Buncles, Shrines and Mid-Solar Kingdom are doing fine, so what are you talking about?


Seriously. Buncles are meta. So are shrine knights. Heck, so is EXLap (not too great of one anymore, but for what it's worth...). So is EM. So is mid ref. So are ref warriors. In fact, the only Refess tribal that's complete and utter junk is TGC, namely because a bunch of units that can't break 30 damage won't win games.

As for the whole stall-while-building-a-snowball playstyle, no sh!t that shouldn't be tier 1 competitive. Because, as I said in another thread:

A: the game starts off with both sides having next to no resources
B: the balancing factor to winning by a landslide with a snowball is that it shouldn't be something that can be consistently set up.
C: the best files have multiple methods of disruption to keep a snowball from going off without a hitch.
D: therefore, a tier 1 file with sufficient disruption should be able to trounce a snowball file any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Or, put another way: snowball-style play should be like the focus mechanic currently is: great if your opponent has no answer, but gets dropped like a bad habit if they do. Snowballs should not be able to succeed despite efforts made to counter them--and every sphere should have solid answers to snowball mechanics.
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Re: Comparison

Postby Callonia » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:33 pm

fargone wrote:Logress doesn't like walls (tanks). He has stated this in the forums years ago.


Shield knight is a level 2 wall. He suffered and continues to suffer for his role. Refess has never been allowed to be what it is - a stall while building momentum before destroying you file. Why? That is not a play style he (logress) likes, and people complain (like that's any different). In fact, I think the number of complaints about guardian left a scar on him that never healed and solar kingdom still bleeds from it.


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Because solar kingdom is fine apparently. I walk over them all the time. Just got lucky that battle replay save worked right now.

The most hilarious part is, Beltorart Kingdom have better snowballing mechanics and generation to do it.

Which brings us back to the point I mentioned. If its yellow? NERF IT! If its solar kingdom? NERF IT!

Gowen? AWwW they're awrite! lets give them tanks and walls!
Beltorart kingdom? AWWW tHEY're cute! Lets give them uber tanks and walls!

Beltorart Spearman > Folrart shield knight by a long shot.
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Re: Comparison

Postby AngelicDeath » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:57 pm

These 2 units are pretty much identical in their supposed role though. It just seems unjust that the solar kingdomguy has 15 stats less than the mermaid shield chic and has no skills while she has free revive and a conditional self buff/allied unit buff. Plus the solar guy is 2 star while she is 1 star.

I like finding apple to apple comparisons to make when comparing cards to see where the shift is and try to determine why (though i would surmise it is to sell cards). There are probably plenty more examples like this if I chose to really delve into it.
DG- folrart shield guy isn't going to snowball anyone.

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Re: Comparison

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:54 pm

Folrart shield knight is a card from set 1. Lots of cards from early sets seem awful relative to more current cards. Why not compare lightning archer or swallow scout with Annette?
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