Aegis, the phantom menace?

Strategies and Card File Construction

Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby DanTheTimid » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:55 pm

Yeah I know everyones up in arms about Dagon (and deservedly so), and some are still angry about Folrart Guardian too (I don't completely agree with this but she is a bit much for her level), but whats really surprisingly me is the lack of complaining about a ridiculous little Lawtia card that causing just as much damage to the meta as any of the afforementioned ones.

His names Aegis, and what he does for a level 2 would still be incredibly strong if he was a level 3 (and quite frankly he probably should be).

[card=313]Darkness Mirror / Aegis[/card]

Right off the bat on stats alone he seems decent, 30 hp and 4 agi is pretty solid for a level 2, RNG2 is actually pretty above average, 10 attack is a little on the weak side but potentially better then nothing (and honestly because of his effects almost never needed). If he had nothing else, he wouldn't see play, but he wouldn't be TOO far off from being useful.

In steps Image Reflection. For 0 sp, aka free, you get one of the most powerful and versatile skills in the entire game!!! And did I mention its an auto skill so it doesn't even take up your action! Want an opponents unit to go last, reflect a low AGI onto it, want their buff unit to not attack or use its attack based skill, swap a low attack onto it, want to buff your own unit, steal the higher AGI and or higher ATK of an opponents unit and make it your own! The versatility and power is so immense, this would probably still be useful if it took up your action and costed 1 sp to use... but it doesn't, its free and it lets you stand by, attack, or use your other skill too!!!

Speaking of that other skill we have Magic Mirror. Image Reflection alone seems to make this card too strong for a level 2 (at least for a level 2 with out a significant downside like low AGI, low HP, or requiring it to be night) but as if that wasn't enough Magic Mirror pushes Aegis out of being just over powered and into the realm of ridiculous. For a mere 1 sp you can completely ignore your own attack value and your opponents defense value and do damage equal to 50% of an enemy units HP! Obviously this is great for breaking tanks, but its down right obscene when used on high level units who've spent a ton of time and resources into being sturdy yet for a single 1sp their cut in half!

Now put this all together, the unit can take a few small hits and not die, usually gets to go first cause of its amazing AGI, for free gets a ridiculously powerful incredibly versatile skill that basically is +1 in field advantage for you (either one of your useless units becomes useful or one of their useful units becomes uselss) and then after that still gets to either cut a unit in half ignoring defense and an reductions to Aegis's own attack for a single sp, or just attack/rest!

This card does 2 amazing abilities, it almost always gets to do them before your opponent gets to do anything, and it comes with pretty much no downsides, only potential to make it even stronger still (such as combining it with lycanthropes to put 0 attack on enemy units). If this card was level 3 it'd still be a incredible, if Image Reflection was an action skill, it'd still be incredible, theres so many ways you could weaken this unit and it'd still be so good it'd see play, that alone seems to be proof that this card needs to be tone down a bit.

I don't want it toned down to the point of useless ness, its got a unique ability that I think is very cool and it should retain, I just don't think such a powerful and versatile ability should come with out downsides. Instead of downsides, this card has nothing but additional upsides, and thats just not right. I really hope this card is looked at and given a little tweak with the next errata and not ignored just because all the complaining is about Dagon and Guardian.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby Phades » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:17 pm

Easiest solution would be to change the auto skill to action and add a 1sp cost to force it into the realm of sanity and make the user choose between penetrating damage or effect. It wouldn't be too different if, for example, derf's debuff for AL units was auto skill and free, with the action skill remaning as is or other "utility" cards like catarina, field musician, or song sorcerress had their good "skill" free and auto with another skill available and free to use afterwards. Although catarina has more options, you get the idea. There are a ton of flexable and interesting cards out there, but not all of them are rediculas.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby Gota » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:28 pm

Agreed, it is a bit too much for its level, it provides too much of a field advantage for just a level 2. I am for making the auto ability into an action skill.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby darklogos » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:38 pm

Having played the card in several different decks it can lead to lock downs with the right units. Early games it can lock down a lot of different tactics. I would say that he is only as powerful as the other side of the field. He punishes you for playing a lot of fast buffers. I think that is a good thing. His hp really is his downside. He can be killed quite easily. If you want to take out the penetrate effect that's fair. But if you take out the supporting cast for Aegis then he has no one to buff. If he is the only unit on the field he is hurting. He is not a self sufficient card.

Like I said I don't see a problem with him and he has a place within lawtia as debuffer and momentum controller.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby teasel » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:42 pm

me thinks that magic mirror is a throwaway skill (altough it makes me wonder why it does penetrating damage instead of normal one considering that bander does normal damage) as 50% of something usualy means "a number smaller or equal to 30" so making image reflection an action skill would be a somewhat pointless nerf
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby Gota » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:54 pm

Aegis is strong because it is good against both big decks and small decks.

Against small decks, you manipulate the field's AT/AGI/or both to your advantage. (At worst, you make the game into an AGI roll 50/50)
Against big decks, you can still manipulate AND you get to cut their big HP in half, which is usually more than 30 dmg, defense ignoring, AND targeting regardless of range)

The targeting is big, since it is suppose to be exclusive to falkow, yet this is on a lawtia unit, in addition to penetrating defense.

Making the auto into an action will at least knock it off a notch so it can't do both in the same turn.
Making it an action skill will make aegis what it truly is, a support unit. As it is right now, he isn't completely a support unit, he is also a fighter because he can still do targeting penetration damage in addition to the buff/debuff it does in the same turn.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby DanTheTimid » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:03 pm

teasel wrote:me thinks that magic mirror is a throwaway skill (altough it makes me wonder why it does penetrating damage instead of normal one considering that bander does normal damage) as 50% of something usualy means "a number smaller or equal to 30" so making image reflection an action skill would be a somewhat pointless nerf


You might think that at a glance, but if you really think about it, even magic mirror is pretty incredible, its just a little over shadowed because of Image Reflection so many players never even use it and still reap the ridiculous rewards of Aegis, but the smart players use both abilities and find themselves with an advantage no level 2, heck, maybe not even a level 3 card should ever have!.

Consider Flying attack, for 1sp it lets some units with not all that dissimilar stats smack a unit of their choice for usually 20-30 damage right? Magic Mirror also lets you choose a target, so just like flying attack it gives you range ignoring pinpoint. Then most units your likely to go after are 40-60 hp so your also doing 20-30 damage. In that respect its like having flying attack in addition to decent stats and image reflection. BUT its actually better because of the fact it ignores defense, so Dryad buffed Blitz soldiers still go down in 2 hits instead of 3. THEN in the situations where your opponent is using something big, it gets better still, it does 35 to devouring lizard and Folrart Guardian (more if their hp has been further buffed and of course ignoring their defense buffs). It does 45 to Zu, 55 to Water dragon, 60 to Allind! Holy dragon takes 48 or so inspite of both his defense and his attack reducing ability.

Magic Mirror on its own wouldn't make Aegis great, heck he probably wouldn't see play if that was all he had, but it IS a powerful tool that can take an already over powered unit and make it obscenely over powered so it is worth noting that he has it and making Image Reflection an action skill would at least some what reduce the ridiculousness that is Aegis.

Perhaps though a better option instead of making Image Reflection an action skill is to make it cost 1sp but leave it an auto skill. The by-turn sp drain would definitely be enough of downside to justify 2 such powerful skills and all that speed with average hp.

And for anyone who thinks 30 hp is low, remember, its a level 2. 30 hp is low for a level 3 or higher, but for a level 2 thats actually about as average as it gets. Whether or not a stat is high or low is relative to its level, not other cards in the game. If we're going to ignore level I could argue every other card in the game has low hp because of the existence of Allind for instance. But Allind has that much HP because he's a level 9.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby Gota » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:01 pm

I think auto 1SP would be too much a nerf, action skill with 0 sp would be better.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby Galandros » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:02 pm

Aegis is an extremely versatile card, perhaps the most versatile in this game currently?
Is it good? Yes. It very worthy of inclusion in files that can you it's strong points.

However it is not a card that causes an NPE where all decks in the meta either use it or spend a large portion of their file to specifically deal with one card.

If you rely on one or two creatures, and they are big and slow, Aegis will wreck you. If it's a severe threat to your file, include grims and/or SS to deal with the card.
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Re: Aegis, the phantom menace?

Postby darklogos » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:10 pm

The reason Aegis is an issue currently is because Dagon forced the meta to play with less grims. Grims beat aegis all the time. But if Aegis is being played 9 times out of 10 dagon is being played as well. I have a tri-sphere deck that uses Aegis and he copies the buffs from my fastest unit over to one of my slower units. This way I can get 2-3 strong attacks in before my opponent. The downside to this is that if I don't kill my opponent they can rest up or finish off my side of the field. Its a risk. But most people aren't playing Aegis with such an obvious weakness.
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