Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

[bashem]

From time I started playing Refess deck is a very poorly constructed deck and you are being forced to use other faction cards to compete basically cause all the units are low agi so I'm always playing catch up with someone who knows what they are doing. The lack of poor balancing made me stop playing for now have other strategy games to play that are better balanced. Hope they fix the problems though.

[Eeyore]

As a Gowen player I will say this...Panther Soul is vital to any Gowen players deck. You also need multiple copies of it to make it the most effective. I only have one copy I got luckily during a level up and Brave Soldier is easily killed once.

Besides Karina, who is easily killed by any deck, Gowen's only team type ability is RANK UP. Practically every card Refess plays has some sort of team ability. Some even act before the Gowen cards, I think Carbunkle's ability does. By the time Gowen can rank up, besides the Monk, they are finally up to par with the other cards your opponent will be bringing out, except for a huge point, they still have very low HP even though they have high attack for a level 2 card. Gowen's level 3 cards are terrible besides Magic Sword Dual-Wielder. And remember the game goes around in circles. It's not like you don't get anything out of the deal. Every time Gowen sends a card of yours to the cemetary you receive an equal amount of SP in return for that service.

A good Refess player will use that to their advantage. Like someone else said on here, Refess is best used as a slow counter-attack deck. Yeah most of your early troops will be whiped out against Gowen, then two Row-Attacking Soul Cards later you have Gowen's front line massacred and a ton of SP given to you so you can summon your big guns that dominate Gowen like your level 4 character card which uses Gowen's best skill against it (Mob Mentality). That card uses the amount of enemy cards X 10 in addition to its base attack.

Refess is difficult, but they are actually a very good clan to play against Gowen since Gowen is usually a dead duck if the game turns into a battle of the Level 3's and 4's. Gowen has the worst level 3's in the game in my opinion. They don't have the same overpowered attacks for their level like their miniature brethren do, they still have no defense to make up for that, and they don't have any cohesion to their assault.

Let's look at the common level 3's to Gowen:

Bear Killing Axe-Man is 60hp/40Att/Agi 1/Def 0/Rng 1(Can do double damage with SP at the cost of half his life, which is better than Revolver Knight's ability since it has better odds of hitting a card you want it to and not a lvl 1 in the back row.)
Played in 1-2-3 and is going to act last in every round and usually die before he gets to.

Magic Sword Dual-Wielder is 50hp/20Att/Agi 4/Rng 1 (Rank up lvl 4 +10 Att, has SP kills that can do +10 damage and reduce opp card Agi-3 or Att -20)
Also played in 1-2-3 dies off fast because this card gets picked on and has low Hp no def. Is the best all-around card for level 3 Gowen starters.

Revolver Knight is 40 Hp/30 Att/Agi 2/Def 0/Range 3 (Rank up lvl 5 +20 hp, Ability to deal 2x Att to random card in range at the cost of 50% Hp to this card.)
His skill doesn't necessarily help him in all situations since he can easily waste half his HP in the attempt to kill off a card like Azure Dragon and hit Slyph in the back row instead. This card needs to be able to target the card of choice to attack. This card is best used in 4-5-6.

So basically here's the low-down. Gowen has two level 3 cards w/low agility that can Kamikazee and one that is a decent all-rounder. The two Kamikazee's agility are so low they no longer have the edge over any deck to attack first. Actually they will most likely attack last. So not only are their Kamikazee talents non-targeting, they're also likely never usable since the cards will be killed off before hand. If they had higher agility they would be way more devestating. Gowen level 3's are best run in a hybrid deck with Agility boosting cards from Falcow.

I hope I've taught some of you Refess more ways to beat me when I use Gowen! To sum it all up wheather the storm of the level 2's and you'll knock Gowen down and out in the level 3's.

Disclaimer: This is intended for the sole use of Alteil and I did not use the end game effects of possible Killing Machine's in either yours or your opponents SC's End Game strategy. Keep in mind this card will dramatically adjust usable strategies mentioned above.

[Grain]

Thank you Eeyore, but that post had no information about handling the combo this thread is about.

I think you should post it in the other thread; Refess's Answer to Gowen Swarming.

[Phades]

Besides Karina, who is easily killed by any deck, Gowen's only team type ability is RANK UP. Practically every card Refess plays has some sort of team ability. Some even act before the Gowen cards, I think Carbunkle's ability does.

Misinformation. Carbuncle is only agl 3 and does not outpace most cards. The +5 defense is almost unoticeable and only has 55hp, which allows many mid game combos to one shot it, especially on a front line unit. Carbuncle is really nice against other refress players though, since it will strike before basically the entire army does.

A good Refess player will use that to their advantage. Like someone else said on here, Refess is best used as a slow counter-attack deck. Yeah most of your early troops will be whiped out against Gowen, then two Row-Attacking Soul Cards later you have Gowen's front line massacred and a ton of SP given to you so you can summon your big guns that dominate Gowen like your level 4 character card which uses Gowen's best skill against it (Mob Mentality). That card uses the amount of enemy cards X 10 in addition to its base attack.

A good gowen player can one shot lion baron via spell or some combination of combat monk and magic sword weilder will remove it, since typically it will be the only surviving front row unit towards the mid game vs gowen.

Refess is difficult, but they are actually a very good clan to play against Gowen since Gowen is usually a dead duck if the game turns into a battle of the Level 3's and 4's. Gowen has the worst level 3's in the game in my opinion. They don't have the same overpowered attacks for their level like their miniature brethren do, they still have no defense to make up for that, and they don't have any cohesion to their assault.

Magic sword weilder, fire storm wyvern, and efreet are the gowen cards commonly played after the level 2s are exhausted. The level really only matters for efreet though, since level 6s are a pain to bring out, unless a row of level 2s were just sent to the cemetary (see suggestions for refress using row based atk cards...). Bear killing axeman tends to be the sacrifice card to absorb damage and trigger soul effects back on their opponent. Revolver knight is ranged support... Not commonly used though.

[Eeyore]

Grain yes I got off-topic. I was responding to someone's comments above mine that Refess is impossible to play with. So I combined topics. You're right I didn't discuss Brave soldier besides briefly in my first paragraph.

To Phades:

I think it is Carbunckle who has the start skill that activates in the beginning of each round before its his turn to act right? I know for sure one Refess card does that. I always find it strange. Even if Gowen has 4 agility cards out the 3 agility start skill will activate first in my experience. That's what I was getting at. And Gowen doesn't have many 1-hit answers for Carbuncle. Especially ones where we'd go out of our way to use them on. I as a Gowen player will usually save my Fire Arrow's for Lion Baron or Spearwomen rather than a card like Carbuncle who is annoying, but doesn't single handedly cripple me.

Yes Gowen can kill Lion Baron once or twice with ease. The problem is that Refess players get 3 copies of that monster! I just used Magic Sword Dual-Wielder against him with her Fire skill which gives him -20 attack. No good! I still had 4-5 cards out on my side due to my usage of "Mob Mentality". Lion Baron still attacked for 40-50 damage, I forget which, and knocked out one of my key front lineman.

Either way Gowen vs Refess is a fun matchup in my eyes.

Gowen first of course.....

[Phades]

Yes Gowen can kill Lion Baron once or twice with ease. The problem is that Refess players get 3 copies of that monster! I just used Magic Sword Dual-Wielder against him with her Fire skill which gives him -20 attack. No good! I still had 4-5 cards out on my side due to my usage of "Mob Mentality". Lion Baron still attacked for 40-50 damage, I forget which, and knocked out one of my key front lineman....

Losing the lion baron is far more crippling for a refress, because there isn't anything after him to bring out at that stage in the game really. Also, a starter refress deck only gets 2 lion barons. A refress player must use some form of resurection card after that point. Any refress player with 3 got it in treasure, bought it, or via leveling up. You are going to have to believe me when i tell you it is absurdly easy to take him out of the game and trading him for 1 level 2 or level 3 attacker is a really easy trade off, especially considering only one lion baron can be on the field at the same time. I am not even going into other decks' character cards that have disgustingly disturbing stats and skills for comparisons down the road. We can already read up on it for one of them with the killing machine combos already...

[Cyanide]

I'm personally not seeing Soul Panther as that big of a problem against my falkow deck, i don't think it's overpowered compared to other cards that I have e.g. Azure Dragon and I get two of those to start off with.

I think the problem is that refess starts off with quite low attack levels and if it does get higher, it hits slowly so often just doesn't hit at all.

The only time I've had a difficulty against refess was when someone used a cassowary king strategy, tanking up the front only letting them hit, but I could get round this as Falkow with Undines and Sylphs

[Grain]

I think it is Carbunckle who has the start skill that activates in the beginning of each round before its his turn to act right? I know for sure one Refess card does that. I always find it strange. Even if Gowen has 4 agility cards out the 3 agility start skill will activate first in my experience. That's what I was getting at.

[card=19]Ruby Carbuncle[/card] is an auto ability card, it doesn't activate until it gets it's turn, which is after all the 4 AGI gowen attack. You're confusing it with [card=16]Boy Combat Priest[/card], which is not very useful against a Gowen deck, since the cards it buffs will die quickly.

And Gowen doesn't have many 1-hit answers for Carbuncle. Especially ones where we'd go out of our way to use them on. I as a Gowen player will usually save my Fire Arrow's for Lion Baron or Spearwomen rather than a card like Carbuncle who is annoying, but doesn't single handedly cripple me.

Fast cards doing 30+ damage each can easily take out a Ruby Carbuncle before it even gets its meager 5 defense.

[Eeyore]

Grain- yep thanks the boy was the one I was thinking of. Refess players are using him quite often against me in spot #2 between an Acolyte and pick your favorite level 3.

And I didn't mean to say that carbunckle is hard for Gowen to kill. With have 31 flavors to be done with that card. Phades said 1-hit so I was using that context.

I usually load up Panther Soul and Brave Soldier against you Refess players. I've also been experimenting with Panter Soul/Revolver Knight. Its not bad...not bad at all.

To Phades-

Thanks for the corrections regarding Carbunckle and Lion Baron. I've seen 3 copies of Lion Baron lately so I was assuming it was natural. It's hard to know sometimes when you're playing people under level 9.

[Phades]

No worries, but it is easy to put forward a misconception when fighting out of the norm.

There were 2 statements i was trying to reinforce mostly. Many of the cards that are alleged tanks get removed either via one hit options or by speed, rendering the tank concept mostly obscelete, especially without a full frontline to help spread the damage out. Refress won't have a full frontline vs gowen's superior lower level units ever. Imho, the refress starter should have had high priest abel included within it instead of cure to help smooth out the first couple turns by allowing the option for sustained healing over time assuming he doesn't get killed via ranged attacks.