Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Grain » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:02 pm

Phades wrote:No worries, but it is easy to put forward a misconception when fighting out of the norm.

There were 2 statements i was trying to reinforce mostly. Many of the cards that are alleged tanks get removed either via one hit options or by speed, rendering the tank concept mostly obscelete, especially without a full frontline to help spread the damage out. Refress won't have a full frontline vs gowen's superior lower level units ever. Imho, the refress starter should have had high priest abel included within it instead of cure to help smooth out the first couple turns by allowing the option for sustained healing over time assuming he doesn't get killed via ranged attacks.


High Priest/Abel is like a Super Cassowary King.

10+ HP to all units every turn, and, for 3 SP, all non-Refess units have 0 range.
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Phades » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:42 am

2 agl... He still has to go. Soul skills, spells, and any agl 2 or greater ranged attacker could kill him.
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Grain » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:06 am

Does nobod else have anything to say about Braver Soldier + Panther Soul?
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Eeyore » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:21 pm

Ok I'll spell it out for you Grain. If you use Falkow Witch is your best friend against Gowen. Get more than one copy, play her early in the match in 7-8-9 and use Sylph on her then put Sylph in front of her in 1-2-3 or 4-5-6 to block one additional turn until you can summon Sea Monster.

Get your hands on more than one copy of her if you can. Opponents especially Lawtia with Flesh Recycle will kill her off. Most opponents don't carry multiple Flesh Recycles. And Gowen has to either use multiple Salamnder's, a Soul Skill, Fire Arrow, or play one of their ranged cards earlier than they would like.

If they use any of those strategies you are money ahead since they are spending a lot of their resources to get rid of one level 2 card that isn't vital to your ability to win.

Once again I coach others to beat me.....don't ask me why I give this advice!

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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby reydien » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:24 pm

I believe Grain is looking for thoughts about what to do if you are playing a Refess deck.
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Eeyore » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:28 pm

Dang I thought he said in here that he was looking for any answer whether it be Falkow/Refess/Lawtia. Hmm that must have been another thread I was thinking about since I looked back and nothing of the sort was stated.

Ok here's another strategy then. This one is a bit quorky so bear with me. I don't know Refess' cards like the back of my hand as I do Gowen. As a user of any deck I think you become aware of a cards strength's and weaknesses more so than others who only occasionally encounter it. And since I am primarily a Gowen user I will offer you this advice:

Depending on how much SP your Gowen opponent has here is what I've come up with:

-If they have less than 2 SP Gowen cannot activate Brave Soldiers SLASH row killing ability. So you only have to worry about one card being knocked off each turn by it. In which case you might gamble and keep your formation strong enabling you to have the most counter attacks back at it.

-If your Gowen opponent has more than 2 SP remaining you could leave a card like Priest Boy in the front row who isn't extremely valuable to you and MOVE the two cards you played in the wings 1 & 3 (presumably Acolyte and ____ level 3 card) to spots in 4 & 6. That way when Brave Soldier attacks first he's forced to attack your sacrifice card and not your front lineman who you need to protect Spearwoman & the Arrow guy.

The upside is that Salamander cannot one-shot Open kill the Priest Boy.
The downside is that if your opponent plays anything like me Brave Soldier will be accompanied by Monk and/or Kartrina with 4 or 5 agility who wil may knock off your sacrifice card opening the stage for a nasty Row killing attack from Brave Soldier.

The object of my idea is to leave a card easy enough to kill for Gowen who will attack first so that your Range 1 cards in the middle row can counter attack with full force. Even as I'm typing this I'm thinking this isn't the most practical strategy for sucess as this truncates your unit space and keeps you from spreading out your units making you even more succeptable to Soul Card row attacks from your Gowen opponent.

Any thoughts on tweaking this to make it usable?

Other ideas that I came up with for Refess/Lawtia combo include using your Level 1 Kersan Peresian (haha spelling) along with Mad Priest in the back row. This would give your opponents a tough choice when choosing which row to eliminate with their row attacks. I forget if Mad Priest is a level 2 or 3. If he's level 2 this may be a plausable idea. If not forget it. If he is that would give you another reason to fit Invisible Druid into your lineup as well.

Another option is to use an attack buffing card in your deck on Spearwoman like the level 1 card from Gowen that gives +20 attack or find a Soul Card that buffs attack. There are a couple of them that do so. Like others have posted before, you can only go out of your way so far before you lose your decks style and spread it out thin to stop all of the combo's that your opponent is using.

Another thought is that you could even put a Killing Machine as your soul card if you have one as the first or second to activate and then use it on a card of yours that has a base Def rating like Lion Baron. Move all of the other cards you have on the field back and let your superior ranged cards knock off Gowen's low hp level 2's while Lion Baron goes head to head with Brave Soldier.

Thouths?
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Grain » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:51 pm

Eeyore wrote:-If your Gowen opponent has more than 2 SP remaining you could leave a card like Priest Boy in the front row who isn't extremely valuable to you and MOVE the two cards you played in the wings 1 & 3 (presumably Acolyte and ____ level 3 card) to spots in 4 & 6. That way when Brave Soldier attacks first he's forced to attack your sacrifice card and not your front lineman who you need to protect Spearwoman & the Arrow guy.


I can't move the cards, I'd have to place them there from the start. Reydien advised something similar, and was reminded that the enemy could simply play other unit cards to keep doing damage to my rows.
The downside is that if your opponent plays anything like me Brave Soldier will be accompanied by Monk and/or Kartrina with 4 or 5 agility who wil may knock off your sacrifice card opening the stage for a nasty Row killing attack from Brave Soldier.


Yup.
Another thought is that you could even put a Killing Machine as your soul card if you have one as the first or second to activate and then use it on a card of yours that has a base Def rating like Lion Baron. Move all of the other cards you have on the field back and let your superior ranged cards knock off Gowen's low hp level 2's while Lion Baron goes head to head with Brave Soldier.

Thouths?


All of these suggestions of using non-Refess cards really don't help, I don't have them. Thanks for trying, though.

I guess Brave Soldier combo is just of those things that you have to have the right cards for, and if you don't, oh well.
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Rienke » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:50 am

Open with big shield folrart, second turn acolyte, big shield dies (don't revive, make sure your first soul card can do atleast 50 dmg), third turn big shield (repeat if he has another panther soul). Basically, u must have a 50 dmg hitting soul card in slot 1 and 2. This wont always be that great for you, but it'll atleast give u options since big shield is a nice low level tank that doubles as soul card triggers. Btw, I play Gowen now :/
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby Cyanide » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:05 pm

OK, I just realised that Panther Soul is a level 1 card, it's too strong for a level 1 card imo. I'd say at least level 2, probably 3.
;a38
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Re: Refess's Answer to Gowen Combo?

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:49 pm

The more I play against this combo, the more sure I am that you can't consistently beat it with out heavy losses with the refess starter, but in the combo's defense, it's using atleast 1 if not multiple copies of a rare card that aren't in the starter either. The combo itself is a solid combo against any deck, it just seems to hurt refess so badly because:

1) Perhaps more then any other clan they NEED to maintain a strong frontline presence
2) They lack speed so the Brave Soldier almost always gets to go first
3) They lack grimoire based enemy unit targetting (fireball, return, etc) so theres no risk in investing alot of sp/cards in a single unit.

Saber Saint / Lapierre is probably their best refess "counter" for the combo since she's fast enough to get an attack off and can punish them for stacking up their front line as is often the case to lower the chance of your attacks hitting the brave soldier. She only hits for 30 so brave soldier will still get a turn to reek havok, but its a pretty even trade off in the end (perhaps in your favor depending on what they stacked in their front row and if you recognized his combo coming and didn't overly stack your front row. She's not in starters and as a Rare (3 star) she's not exactly easy to get your hands on, but again, the same can be said about panther soul.

Oh and if you combo her with Solar Prince / Verlaat and get lucky that he hits the brave soldier, you might actually be able to take him out before he gets a chance to perform an action, but that requires a 5 star card and relies alot more on luck so thats asking a bit much.
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