If You Hate Lebeau

Strategies and Card File Construction

Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby Hakuro de Killer » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:38 pm

burnah wrote:I won vs 2 LeBeau players today, one even used three of them as Soul Cards.


I guess my loss against you turned into a win after all (I was experimenting with a Triple LeBeau strategy, which failed miserably). So yeah. LeBeau is broken when played properly. But therein lies the problem: "When Played Properly" There have been times that I have been forced to use LeBeau on a Shade because i couldn't control it's timing properly and I got pushed into a corner. Because of Shade being so weak in attack power, I eventually lost because the opponent got a bunch of stuff out and just steamrolled over Shade.

True, when put on Animated Dead or Zugateroza, the effect is amplified a little, but if you're smart enough to be able to know take it down over and over, the opponent will run out of SP, have their LeBeau'd card killed, and not be able to stop the huge armies your opponent has amassed while you were hiding behind a unit with LeBeau on it and you lose.
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby Moratorius » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:29 pm

burnah wrote:Return (1 star) or attacking the enemy directly did the trick.

As you may have noticed throughout my posts, I've always believed Falkow is the second best starter. Return is common, so it's easy to get 3 of them, and while 3SP isn't cheap, at least it's in the same sphere you're summoning from; other decks have to spend 6SP just for return (which isn't a bad deal compared to cost/unpredictability some of the other counters). Plus, Return works well against all spheres... pesky units disappear without any significant setup (not to mention the returning abilities of several of the other Falkow cards, in addition to amazing agility manipulation)... well, this is known to everyone anyway.

Hakuro de Killer wrote:True, when put on Animated Dead or Zugateroza, the effect is amplified a little, but if you're smart enough to be able to know take it down over and over, the opponent will run out of SP, have their LeBeau'd card killed, and not be able to stop the huge armies your opponent has amassed while you were hiding behind a unit with LeBeau on it and you lose.

Eh... taking it down over and over is the hard part, since there will be units behind your LeBeau'd unit attacking the penetrate/charge/etc attempt too. The most effective counters are those that remove/return the card itself (e.g. Assassin SC, Return) to get around the obscene defense or reanimation skill.
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby Sarkath » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:37 am

Eh... taking it down over and over is the hard part, since there will be units behind your LeBeau'd unit attacking the penetrate/charge/etc attempt too. The most effective counters are those that remove/return the card itself (e.g. Assassin SC, Return) to get around the obscene defense or reanimation skill.

Not if you are lawtia, if you play correctly, in a certain way you can penetrate units on the field without of them dying all the time, and easily kill the reanimated even if they have 10 sp saved, just do it with a simple flesh recycle. Works the same way as remove.

I don't take up that "you must have defense and such" that's your job, since you have a different deck than me. ;)

Zugaretsu is although more tricky, but as long you have ranged, you can take out units around while using penetrate or assassin unit on the field to take it down. I would put one of my soul skills on it, so it can barely make any moves, if buffed with Killing machine, since that auto revive won't remove the debuffs as well. It means all it can do is stand there and look silly.

Remember that return doesn't work against Zugaretsu, and that an assassin skill might cost you 3 sp, while it costs the opponent 2 sp to revive, and not everyone have assassin.

But this is mostly a Lawtia work-around in theory. My deck could handle this, but I have never encountered anyone with these cards, so I can't say. But I bet they will mostly depend on these Le Bleau, so taking control in the opening might not be as difficult as one might believe. Therefore getting up a defense will probably be possible. The control of the field when the opponent has Le Bleau is most important so that the Le Bleau user MUST rely on the Le bleau card.

This way it will be easier to win.
Sarkath out. :ugeek:
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby teasel » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:07 am

now i'm kinda curious... what happens if you use flesh recycle on animated dead? does the guy keeps dying and resurrecting until the player who control it runs out of SP?
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby DWildstar » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:27 am

teasel wrote:now i'm kinda curious... what happens if you use flesh recycle on animated dead? does the guy keeps dying and resurrecting until the player who control it runs out of SP?

Someone else mentioned this in another thread. No, the animated dead will just die and take 2 of your SP. I think people would be afraid to take out an animated dead if it were able to drain all your SP :shock:
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby Moratorius » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:08 pm

Sarkath wrote:Not if you are lawtia, if you play correctly, in a certain way you can penetrate units on the field without of them dying all the time, and easily kill the reanimated even if they have 10 sp saved, just do it with a simple flesh recycle. Works the same way as remove.

It's true that it works with Animated Dead... but so many people have picked up on this, I never see a LeBeau'd Animated Dead anymore (probably the cards were replaced with more versatile ones, or saved for counterattack). Amusingly, I've seen some people of non-Lawtia spheres using flesh recycle to pick off my Gowen grunts if they have a spare 4SP...

Sarkath wrote:Zugaretsu is although more tricky, but as long you have ranged, you can take out units around while using penetrate or assassin unit on the field to take it down. I would put one of my soul skills on it, so it can barely make any moves, if buffed with Killing machine, since that auto revive won't remove the debuffs as well. It means all it can do is stand there and look silly.

It takes 1SP to do 100 damage. It doesn't need ATK, it doesn't need AGI, it doesn't need more than 10 HP. What debuff could possibly matter to it?

Sarkath wrote:But this is mostly a Lawtia work-around in theory. My deck could handle this, but I have never encountered anyone with these cards, so I can't say. But I bet they will mostly depend on these Le Bleau, so taking control in the opening might not be as difficult as one might believe. Therefore getting up a defense will probably be possible. The control of the field when the opponent has Le Bleau is most important so that the Le Bleau user MUST rely on the Le bleau card.

What's wrong with relying on the LeBeau card? It's certainly works. I just had a 20 game winning streak after putting LeBeau into my deck; my previous before that was 9. I've noticed a higher occurrence and longer duration of winning streaks of all the opponents I've fought who have placed LeBeau into their decks (compared to when I last fought them, the day before). It often ends up being a race to see who runs out of ranged units first with the two LeBeau rendering RNG1 units highly inadvisable to use (unless it's Falkow... then they can just return it, either with Expert Sorcerer or just another Return card if I'm not using a lv4+ LeBeau'd...).

Sarkath wrote:This way it will be easier to win.

Easier, but still far more difficult than it should be from starting deck compositions that were supposed to be balanced.
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby Sarkath » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:02 pm

It takes 1SP to do 100 damage. It doesn't need ATK, it doesn't need AGI, it doesn't need more than 10 HP. What debuff could possibly matter to it?

That makes life worse, yes indeed. I failed to notice that action skill. Sorry.
Wonderful debuff is "engage" and "decrease DF".

Easier, but still far more difficult than it should be from starting deck compositions that were supposed to be balanced.

Yes, but the sad part is, that guy is a high rarity card, not found in the starter deck. But still, it's a destructive combination. I probably don't have a way around it, except for trying to keep control, and hold an assassin in the back while waiting till he can't revive the lord with its skill. That is if you don't have dispel.

This may sound bad, but if we say that he forgets it and start to "expand" by putting out units. That will probably leave him with one or no SP, then, shugg it off. You need to keep 3 sp all the time then. Which may be a problem if he have a shade at the right time.

An extreme disadvantage, I know.
Sarkath out. :ugeek:
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Re: If You Hate Lebeau

Postby kitsunekit » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:26 pm

Why don't they just reword the card? Maybe try for a couple weeks with +5/2 cards or something...
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