Removing Labeau

[DearestNight]

Alright. So. I'm making this post as a request for some advice, because I am an indecisive person. I am removing one of the said evil demon cards, I kind of got fed up with him on my end today. I might keep one, I haven't decided yet, seeing as with just one on a creature, more often that not the opponant does find a way around it. Thing is, I have absolutely no idea what to use. I have many options, but that is exactly my problem, not being able to figure out what would support me best. I did try dryads at one point, but they didn't really change much during the course of my strategy.

So. I would like to ask, from both lawtia and non-lawtia alike, having played or played against us, does anyone have any suggestions for what would work well in late slots? Damage, +att, I have no idea currently.

[Grain]

Damage is always yummy.

Stat buffs require timing skill & luck.

[Phades]

The cardfile and strategy invovled can heavily influence the answer. Perhaps reinforcing that you are lawtia or a different file would help this along.

If you anticipate that you don't have much damage and that your opponent outnumbers you, then a row or columb attacking soul skill would be appropriate.

If you anticipate that you will have many units and similar speed, the eliete crest knight wold give you the striking edge late game to turn the tide in your favor by allowing targeted damage and +agl to all your units.

If you anticipate that you will have some units protecting others and need to stall for a turn, dryad in conjunction with shields up on the turn it triggers can help achieve this. (I don't reccomend this personally)

There is the killing machine stall combo till win on a regenerating or living dead unit, but can work to protect any "key" unit strategy for a turn or two.

Also, the counter strategy of x20 gowen damage targeted vs the killing machine combo to mana sink the opponent can work too. (Works better with shades.)

There are many other responses.

[MeleeNewb]

Personally I find damage dealing is almost never a bad idea. Stat buffs can be difficult to use because most often they'll be activating the same time as you're losing creatures. A little sp gain early on can be quite useful as well.

[ShadowSky]

ok guys I use a Lawtia deck with my other account and must say that if Labeau will be remove we need stronger cards.
The deck is difficult to play because the monsters have not much hp and attack power. Only in the night some monsters can do somehting.

[Grain]

ok guys I use a Lawtia deck with my other account and must say that if Labeau will be remove we need stronger cards.
The deck is difficult to play because the monsters have not much hp and attack power. Only in the night some monsters can do somehting.

I've been beaten by many Lawtia players that didn't even use LeBeau's soul skill.

But, then again, I'm a Refess Iczer.

[Eeyore]

The Lawtia level 3's that are commonly used, Crest Regenerating Knight & Moonlight Warrior, both have 30 Attack which is as high as all of Falkow's cards, higher than most of Refess' front line that has 25 Attack, and Gowen doesn't revolve around level 3's and the ones they do use are out of the ordinary so they aren't easily comparable due to Rank up, skills, and varied agility.

Falkow's strength is their level 3's when in tandom with agility and targeting. Lawtia when used with a Shade first turn guarantees only Lawtia can use a level 3 card in turn 2. No other deck can do so. Its a huge advantage to be able to get the first lvl 3 out on a near empty playing field. And since one Lawtia level 3 regenerates and the other is near indestructable 1/3 of the time they are not killed off easily. So once Lawtia has those two up front out come all of the level 2 cards with Night advantages to be played behind the protection up front.

Lawtia's level 2's weren't designed to go head to head against Gowen on every turn. They are best used in the rear where they are in little danger and can cause mass destruction.

I agree and disagree with your thoughts about Lawtia needing stronger cards if Labeua is taken away. If they are to remain better by far than any other color as they currently are than YES they will need "Stronger" cards. Otherwise NO they are in no need of stronger cards they are very competitive with/or without Killing Machine. That Zombie Lord card is practically a cheat card. A fully healing level 4 with a 1 Sp skill to do 100 damage!!!! You've got to be kidding. How do you get rid of this card when your opponent has multiple copies? All of the best ways to get rid of Lawtia's cards are in Lawtia itself (Assassin, Invisible Druid, Killing Machine, Flesh Recycler). Falkow's best answer to get rid of a level 4 card that I know about is using EXPERT SORCERER who costs 3 Sp to play and an additional 3 Sp to activate his skill to return a level 4 or under card to file. The problem is the card has very low agility so he needs a Sylph used on him in the next round usually. So that leaves us at 7 Sp to send a level 4 card back to opponent file who only costs 4 Sp for them to use again. Expert Sorcerer should send the opponent card to the cemetary not back to the file. 3 Sp is simply too high a cost to use on a card that isn't buffed when that card can simply be used again the very next turn.

And if Lawtia wants to keep their unit on the field what do they use? 1 measely Sp Flesh Recycler will kill off the Expert Sorcerer before he acts.

I have to say whomever designed these starter files didn't look close enough into Lawtia. They're so completely overpowered its a joke. I've had opponents not even use Killing Machine beat me when I have a 8-3 LP lead in a match (using my Gowen deck) and their side of the field is empty except for one card that they just summoned, Zombie Lord. The Lawtia player gets all of the SP from their previous units I've dispatched to the cemetary so they have a nice 5-8 SP buffer. Game over! Lawtia wins. You've got to be kidding me how is this fun? How is that not an overpowered card? Unless you can do 50 damage seperately around 5 times in one round = good luck with that, Lawtia has won the match with the use of 1 card that hasn't even attacked yet.

The person with the indestructable card is always at an advantage because Lawtia has excellent cards to get rid of any attempt to kill indestructable cards. Assassin used as a Soul Card is a non-Lawtia players best hope I've found. I could go on and on....

[DearestNight]

Thank you everyone so far.

So, I've experimented with a bunch of SC's now. Through this, I learned more about my playstyle than I could have otherwise. Unfortunately, now I'm even more conflicted. lol. I've realized, regenerators are usually the last thing I put Labeau on. I had never noticed before. Another thing I'm noticing is that although I hate double-labeau-ing a card (i prefer to spread it), against the proper people, it actually makes things harder on me. As I shifted my SC around, when I did end up with 2 labeau again, some guys ripped through it with no problem. Easily in fact. This actually prompted me to run Dispel, in fact. lol.

My entire view of the card is changing a bit, and I'm starting to realize something. I have the same problem people have with labeau, with other decks and cards. Unless I put in certain specific cards to counter other spheres, each has something to wreck me. I depend a lot, on lvl 2's. Yes, I have some rares. And it is truly humbling to have Eskatia and your Lycan's all suddenly vanish (Cyclone >_< ), followed by -agi cards going back to the hand as well. Everything you try to bring out next gets pummeled. Just one example.

But, back to my point. I don't know the answer to this, I'm still thinking about it, but with everyone battling over what are the OP cards, is it more the cards....or the fact that, decks properly set to counter enemies, succeed? Dispel, is level 2. Falk has low level agi changing cards. Flesh recycle can hurt bad, hey, it's level 2 as well. Gowen's magic weapon is a great addition to anyone, for a level 1, that can change the tide early. Just some examples. And may I also say, I no longer underestimate Turn to Dust. It's not fun going to grab a much needed, no longer there, card. lol. All cards easily put into any deck, any sphere.

My experiment has really left me thinking this one thing: It all depends on the player, and how they play. I still don't know if I -like- labeau, but, my honest lawtia's opinion....he's wreckable. Easily, if the right guy is the one facing ya. Very easily. And that, is exactly why Labeau bothers me. Because it can make a person bet all their chips on it, and play around it, and if a guy knows that and is prepared, that easily can be the end.

To summarize: In the end, I now feel that "sometimes", it's overpowered, depending on who you play, and as a SC, anyone can play it. But so are a lot of things. And sure, it may have a great advantage now? But I have a feeling, with expansions, that is dramatically going to change. Sometimes when I have it, I wished I had a damage SC instead, and sometimes, I wish I had him instead of damage. And often enough, he gets smashed. I still havent figured out which SC's make up what I really need but, I'm definately seeing other strats in interesting lights....

[Sarkath]

To summarize: In the end, I now feel that "sometimes", it's overpowered, depending on who you play, and as a SC, anyone can play it. But so are a lot of things. And sure, it may have a great advantage now? But I have a feeling, with expansions, that is dramatically going to change. Sometimes when I have it, I wished I had a damage SC instead, and sometimes, I wish I had him instead of damage. And often enough, he gets smashed. I still havent figured out which SC's make up what I really need but, I'm definately seeing other strats in interesting lights....

That's how it's. Mostly now, there will be these "standards" especially when most people have customized one of 4 starter decks minimally. But it's also mostly the lower levels that will experience this, since you don't have that much gran, you are learning the game, and all. But when people begin to make their own, and you have around 50 different decks, where new ones comes out daily, where maybe dozen of them are popular. You'll see that more and more, these "standard routines" won't work.

But in the end it will always come down to, skill/prediction and all that. These "routines" are only for those who want to play "safe" against different starting deck's weaknesses, in the beginning, exactly where we all are as you say. There are several ways around them, as long you know about them as well. If you know if he's goin to play that or this, then you can fend it off even before the guy has actually made the move.

It's quite funny that, if you encounter a battle like Lawtia vs. Lawtia, you will know exactly what he/she will lay out, in order to cause several backslash, if you really want to get a very interesting match where everything ruin these "standard or common" routines.

Le Bleau is going to be nerfed down in some way, say other new good cards comes out, or we find other interesting cards nearly, or just as good, might even be anti Le Bleau, where the community goes Le Bleau SS vs. Anti-Le Bleau SS/unit, and another part which goes the "original/unique" way. In any form, it will be nerfed by other cards or a degraded SS.

It isn't as badly like it sounds, but yeah the gameplay will dramatically change in a couple of months, or already for those who can buy gran. I can't due to economical limitations, the bad part of being a student in college. But anyways, you are very correct. I look forward to the higher levels, and how Alteil will develop through the coming months.

At christmas, many of us will probably laugh and say... "Aye mate, did yer remember that day when we brawled over this bloody Killing Machine? *hic*
Probably.

[Moratorius]

But in the end it will always come down to, skill/prediction and all that. These "routines" are only for those who want to play "safe" against different starting deck's weaknesses, in the beginning, exactly where we all are as you say. There are several ways around them, as long you know about them as well. If you know if he's goin to play that or this, then you can fend it off even before the guy has actually made the move.

I'm not going into this further, but suffice to say at the moment said "ways around them" don't work as well as LeBeau (in terms of cost, risk, and return) even half the time. [whine] And also...

... ranked winners will receive gran equal to their points,
...
*scoring system for ranking is 2 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, and -1 point for a loss

and

2 Master Iczer Prizes – Two winners will be chosen randomly from the top 25 Iczers each week.

If I were to claim at least a third of the weekly top 25 will be Lawtia players, I'd probably be right (though hey, this is just my opinion based on personal experience). Next time you play against a Lawtia player (who uses 2-3 LeBeau SC), take a look at their win/loss record and compare it to anyone else (probably the only decks to consistently somewhat match them will be those of Falkow players). As far as I've seen, every Lawtia player who plays LeBeau has won at least 3 out of 5 games, usually 4 out of 5 games. Of course, at this time that record is based mainly on battles from the 1-9 arena, where players learn of possible counters to LeBeau tactics (and some of these counters require cards that are rarely seen unless you buy cards... so Lawtia starters will continue to rock until they run into players who have chosen to do so). As other players get more experience and enter the all levels arena, they might start losing "just" 3 out of 5 matches to Lawtia instead of 3-4...

I already know other cards in the coming expansions will balance LeBeau's current superiority; what troubles me is that they're being rewarded for it, which will make them even stronger by the time aforementioned cards are implemented -- and then we'll be on an equal playing ground, ignoring the Gran and [possible] cards/items they'll have won from the rankings, events, and upcoming tournament.

Yay? [/whine] Well, all whining aside, it's a fun game. Enjoy it, and try not thinking too much about it like I do.