Beating Falkow With Refess

Strategies and Card File Construction

Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Grain » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:08 pm

The high HP and above average defense of Refess units is meant to compensate for the below average AGI.

Vordore can effortlessly wipe out a Refess Iczer's entire field. Refess does no good being Refess against Falkow.

There's also Mystere, but she isn't as much of an issue.

The only thing I can think of is a sphere levelx20 attack on vordore immediately.

Tips?
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Romdeau » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:22 pm

I'm not going to go into too much detail as to what you guys should do, but I have fought against a couple of Refess players who manage to shut me down.

I will tell you that using one shot kill SS is not an effective counter to Vordore-especially since Refess likes to keep their guys on the board (minus the sacrificial Will-O-Wisp or something).
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Grain » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:25 pm

Proxy wrote:I'm not going to go into too much detail as to what you guys should do, but I have fought against a couple of Refess players who manage to shut me down.


Thanks...
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:24 pm

:? wow proxy, that was sort of a "haha! I know how refess can beat Falkow but I ain't telling!" sort of post. Since your apparently a Falkow player yourself I can understand why you wouldn't necessarily want to share your weaknesses but it just came off a little rude to me (and from his response I'm guessing to Grain as well).

In my experience for non super stall refess decks Vordore isn't the problem, refess vs Falkow games tend to be decided prior to Vordore being played. Vordore is basically Falkow's mid to end game hammer, he comes down when Falkow has a nice set up and is going for the kill. To prevent Vordore from being truly effective your goal should not be to kill him out right (that does work for other clans but refess just isn't very good at it) but to keep falkow from establishing themselves well enough that he can come down with a large swarm of units to recieve his boost.

As for how to keep Falkow from establishing themselves, that depends both on your strategy as a refess player and your opponents strategy as a falkow player, I've beaten some and struggled with others. Blessed Acolyte absolutely dominates haste soldier so if you run into this match up, smile, your already in the drivers seat toward success. However if your running a stall refess and you've got shield men in your BA slot then you may be in a world of hurt (but again Vordore in general wrecks stall refess). Whats more if your opponent is running stuff like witch+sylph to keep bouncing your BAs instead of using haste soldiers it can be hard to maintain field presence while he's building up his field. If they throw in the Wasseir soul card on top of that, honestly I haven't figured out how to beat that deck just yet, they just have too much time to set up while you keep rebuilding your field.

If you do make it into the mid game in good shape though just make sure to play your Light Spear Woman as soon as you can as her high damage and armor piercing have a tendency to really give falkow front liners trouble. I haven't tried it myself but I'd assume EX-Baron would be a decent anti-falkow too. The key is making defense a non factor, make it a non factor and even the normally weak refess units can take down Falkow pretty quickly, and until Vordore hits the field Falkow's damage output really isn't much of a threat to the high hp refess units. Keep pressing your advantage and Vordore will never find a good time to come out.

But again, super-return falkow files are ones even I haven't found a good tactic against with refess. Refess doesn't have the open skill units necessary to make them pay for bouncing our units (just think how different this match up must have been in the Japanese game where Refess had a +2sp open skill will-o-wisp) nor do they have the field damaging grimoire necessary to deal damage with out units, so refess really doesn't have many ways to prevent super-return Falkow from setting up, and once set up Vordore WILL almost always spell the end for Refess.

Unfortunately its very possible this imbalance in Falkow's favor is a result of the overhaul (aka extreme weakening) will-o-wisp received in the english game since in Japan's early game the japanese will-o-wisp can deal with witch/sylph and absolutely loved being returned to your deck.
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Romdeau » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:21 pm

That wasn't my intent, but yes your correct that I don't wish to give away the strategies used to trample me. I'm sorry if it came across as rude.
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby EvilGenius » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:16 pm

Falkow beats Refess. That's just the truth. Refess has neither the speed nor the power to get field control before Falkow can set up. Between Return skills and Sylph skills, Falkow just beats Refess by superior control. Without a ton of luck, Refess has the hardest time against Falkow (Refess has a hard time with all Empires, except its own, but that's another story).

With that said, Go Refess! ;a41 Refess 4 Life.
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Romdeau » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:21 pm

EvilGenius wrote:With that said, Go Refess! ;a41 Refess 4 Life.

Nice touch, very appropriate touch to top off the paragraph that was wrote before it ;)

;a38
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby EvilGenius » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:38 pm

Proxy wrote:
EvilGenius wrote:With that said, Go Refess! ;a41 Refess 4 Life.

Nice touch, very appropriate touch to top off the paragraph that was wrote before it ;)

;a38


;a30 (I still don't have a single copy of her...)
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Logress » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:04 am

As the Falkow GM, I can say that while Falkow has superior control, it does so by a delicate balance of support cards and open skills (that you have a limited number of). If you're up against someone who you've fought before and know is a Falkow, open with a skipped turn, then Ancient Spear Knight turn 2, then Light Spearwoman turn 3. Either put them in row 1 (they have as much HP as a front line Falkow, anyway) or in row 2, filling in Row 1 with blockers after you're enemy's out of song sorceress (because you'll need all the range you can get until then). If you want to get fancy and you're using the starter, boy priest in between them might be worth it so you can one shot sorcerer guard. Since this setup opens with level 3's it also short circuits the witch opening.
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Re: Beating Falkow With Refess

Postby Grain » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:10 am

Logress wrote:As the Falkow GM, I can say that while Falkow has superior control, it does so by a delicate balance of support cards and open skills (that you have a limited number of). If you're up against someone who you've fought before and know is a Falkow, open with a skipped turn, then Ancient Spear Knight turn 2, then Light Spearwoman turn 3. Either put them in row 1 (they have as much HP as a front line Falkow, anyway) or in row 2, filling in Row 1 with blockers after you're enemy's out of song sorceress (because you'll need all the range you can get until then). If you want to get fancy and you're using the starter, boy priest in between them might be worth it so you can one shot sorcerer guard. Since this setup opens with level 3's it also short circuits the witch opening.


Don't statistics say that there are a lot more shade users than Falkow?

Thank you for the tip.
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