Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

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Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:07 pm

[card=10]Rapid Shot Magic Archer[/card] UPDATED BY Lupos

I know its rare enough to see refess players at all in the 10+ room, and even more rare to see Refess players having success in the 10+ room, but one thing I've personally never seen to date at all is the successful use of Rapidshot Magic Archer. Theres a number of refess units I could argue are under powered or useless but I've SEEN people use them and while I still didn't think they were worth it, they did get some use out of them. Rapidshot Magic Archer however I'm not sure I've seen used period. I think I may have tried it out myself once but after several bad experiences with it in a row tossed it aside where I haven't used it again.

With Refess still struggling to compete with the other clans I'm constantly looking for new ways to use them, particularly ones that don't require 3 copies of their 4 and 5 star rarity cards. Rapidshot Magic Archer seemed like that under used card that could be what their missing. So I took an indepth look over it... and alas I can completely understand why it seems no one uses it.

At level 3 she's expensive to play, requiring a turn and a halfs worth of sp. Definitely a bad level to have as Refess has an excess of level 3s, what they often lack are playable lvl1 and 2s, often forced to splash from other clans (and thus still putting themselves at sp disadvantage). At 20 hp to say she can't take a hit is putting it nicely. Her HPs on the same level as Will-o-Wisp or Kesseran Passeran, not a group you want to be in, especially if you don't have a great open skill. Her attack is 30. Thats actually not bad for Refess who is routinely stuck with only 25 attack, but nothing special when compared to other clans who get 30 attack on things like Salamander (along with range, an amazing open skill, and only being level 1). Her AGI is 2. Not unusual for Refess but it does mean like most Refess units she needs to be able to survive through every unit your opponent has attacking cause she's probably attacking last (20 hp does not help accomplish this). Lastly we have 5 RNG. For me the magic RNG number is 3, any more or any less is inferior. Having 5 means she can always hit everything but it also means you can never place her in such a way that you can narrow down her targets should you have specific targets in mind.

So her stats are absolutely terrible for a level 3, she's level 3 yet comparable to other clans level 2 or even level 1s, but theres still the little matter of her effect. For 1 sp you can cut her attack in half and hit 2 random targets instead of 1. Um... under whelming much? Don't get me wrong, the effect can be useful in theory to finish things off, but the low damage (15) combined with the high randomness of the target (again that 5 RNG works against her since everything on your opponents entire field is a potential blocker for whatever it is you actually want to hit) result in a very situational and very luck based ability. Honestly I don't know why this ability even costs an SP, it isn't half as good as say Combat Monks Triple Attack which is free. For 1 sp she should hit for full attack strength, or atleast be allowed to choose the targets.

So long story short, she really seems too slow, too weak, too random, and too expensive to be worth using. With cards like Anciet Spear Knight having triple her HP, an ability that lets you actually choose your target, and can hit up to 3 units for his full attack and not half, its really hard to justify Rapidshot Magic Archer taking up card file slots. And Anciet Spear Knight isn't even generally considered the good Refess ranged unit, that goes to Light Spearwoman, so thats really saying something if she can't even compare to Ancient Spear Knight.

Still am I missing something? Has anyone found her to be useful? Has anyone had her used effectively against them? Has anyone even seen her used period? If not I think the Japanese should really look into re balancing this ridiculously cool looking archer. No matter what future cards we get I really don't see how she will ever stop being inferior to the cards we already have if she stays in her current form.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Candi » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:19 pm

The really funny think about her ability is Falkow players get the Deep Squid, which - although a level 4 unit (thus some comparisons have to be waved simply due to higher level) - has 70 hp, 2 RNG and 40 ATK and for 0 SP can do that very same trick, except it has less range.. And for 2 SP it can do a 30 attack to 3 random units in range (which 90% of the time is all of them with only RNG 2).

Now, back to your question - my simple answer, never seen her before. To be honest, I kind of laughed at the fact that she came "free" with the EX Pack, Deep Squid was/is definitely the best "free" card in the EX packs, but at least Blitz and Leo are playable, the Archer just seems - well, inferior.

Let me see if I can imagine a way in which she could be a lot more useful.

First and foremost, she needs to be played when you have a solid defense set up - Folrart Paladin and Shield Knight front line *at least*, and possibly something in the middle row to so that you can further muddle up range attackers. With only 20 HP she's a liability to say the least. Having a Ruby Carbuncle at her side may help - not only deter random attacks, but also for the semi-fast DEF boost. Hey, every 5 counts!

Then what? Still costs 1 SP so you need to have saved that, she needs a Wisp to get even remotely close to survivable and then when her turn comes she only gets 15 damage on two random targets... Magic Weapon? Now we're splashing, and you wanted to stay away from that -- but honestly, if I played Refress I would splash Falkow - you guys lack, above all else, speed, and I'm a speed/control freak.

I dunno, after my analysis - which looks a lot like yours - I am stumped and see her as a liability asking to be shot down to eat away at your LP. I would play Spearwoman or Spear Knight before her anyday...

GGG?
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Essence » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:21 pm

Yes, that is right. Without buffs it's very worthless. Against my gowen deck I did see it used though. I wasn't expecting it at all, and I got messed up. It was buffed for about 30 attack(swan cav ss+magic weapon) so it's skill was doing 30 damage each plus the agi was pretty good. It one hit my combat monk and dropped my blitz soldier so low that the combat priest and Folrart Paladin finished it.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Candi » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:35 pm

Essence wrote:Yes, that is right. Without buffs it's very worthless. Against my gowen deck I did see it used though. I wasn't expecting it at all, and I got messed up. It was buffed for about 30 attack(swan cav ss+magic weapon) so it's skill was doing 30 damage each plus the agi was pretty good. It one hit my combat monk and dropped my blitz soldier so low that the combat priest and Folrart Paladin finished it.


There's a thought, SS buff it - with throw away units like the Wisp you could manage to buff one up to usefulness - thought I wouldn't expect it to last long, a super buffed unit tends to get the evil glares of everything your opponent can muster. Then again, what about global buffs that also give this gal the oomph she needs to be powerful - EX: Vordore anyone? 10 ATK, 10 DEF and 1 AGI-- to everyone! If you have a living Lion Baron as well she becomes the finishing move to clean house after the baron had his brutal swipe on the foes.

Then again... Ancient Spear Knight + EX Vordore is situationally better.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:37 pm

Nice to hear some one used it effectively, but if a card requires multiple buffs to be useful, is it really useful at all? I'd argue any card will mess you up when buffed with swan cav SS and magic weapon and while you can set up magic weapon you can't necessarily count on swan cav going off on her every time. With only 20 hp and 2 AGI using buffs that don't boost speed are very risky because she can die so easily before she even gets a chance to make an attack.

Even in that instance where the player got usefulness out of her the player would have been better off with say a Peregrine Paladin / Larut in place of the Swan, it also would have done 30 damage twice (only to units of his choice instead of randomly) or Bounty Hunter / Elena (40 damage to 2 random units instead of 30 )and then in either case he'd still have whatever unit he used instead of Rapidshot Magic Archer available to do something else (and an extra sp unspent).
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby GunCastor » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:41 pm

I think she's better used as a soul card, that 20x Refess level can really take out that tank sitting in front or that Le Beau SC-ed unit. Without buffs, she really can't do too much and those stats are pretty embarassing for her level. You can buff up a stronger unit anyways, making an even better unit out on the field. I like her picture a lot though, a shame she's not very useful.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Phades » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm

This card is in the realm of turn to dust, spell lock, will - o - wisp, defensive manuvers, bluerigid, cyclone, and a couple others being highly conditional use for questionable gains.

I tried running it while i was still struggling with refress trying to make something work reliably and for the reasons the OP mentioned, it just got hammered over and over again. If there was some kind of error with the card in translating it over and it was supposed to be a level 2 card, it would have made more sense. Still, even if it were a level 2 card, either its AGL or HP are too low. Even buffing its defense is rather pointless, considering 2 sylph or shade can kill it before it even acts never mind "real attackers" or multi hitters like fire tornado, tempest, counter attack etc.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:59 pm

I'd also argue that Rapidshot Magic Archer is obsoleted by Saber Saint / Lapierre, who has 4 AGI instead of 2 (which makes GIGANTIC difference in usefulness), 30 hp instead of 20, and hits an entire row of units for 30 each (instead of 2 units for 15). Just like RMA and ASK she is improved by buffs (actually even better since magic weapon adds +20 to per unit damage instead of just +10), 30 hp means with a single defense buff she can survive through most things unlike RMA, her effect might only hit 1 unit but it also might hit 3, and she can still hit things with her effect even if her range is reduced by things like Cassoway King unlike RMA.

It just seems like even if you can conceive a situation where Rapidshot Magic Archer is useful, you can replace her with Lapierre, Ancient Spear Knight, or Light Spearwoman, and they'll almost always do as good if not a better job. The situations where she's actually superior are EXTREMELY rare in occurrence. The best I can come up with is that your opponent has only 1 unit in every row and column and every one of your opponents units has 15 hp left and none of them have the range to hit Rapidshot Magic Archer or only one does but has 15 attack or all 3 of them have AGI of 1. Those are some pretty harsh restrictions.

Like Phades said, even at level 2 she still wouldn't be great, but she might atleast see use if only because Refess is kind of lacking in the level 2 department right now. The fact that you can say that about her is a testament to just how weak she is, most other units would be incredible if they were a level lower.

As for her Soul Skill, personally I feel Lion Baron EX obseletes that as well. Lion Baron EX does 60 defense ignoring damage to one enemy unit. It can never hurt you, and short of a very small handful of ridiculously high level high hp units, it can kill anything in one hit. Rapidshot Magic Archer's SS on the other hand does situational damage (in my current refess build it would never do more then 60 damage as I don't use anything over level 3) that IS reduced by defense (which most big hp units tend to be given), and most importantly in my mind, it will force you to destroy your own units if your opponent has no units left. The first time that effect back fired on me and caused me to lose a game I had previously had "in the bag" I removed Rapidshot Magic Archer from my SS to never be added again.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Justice » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:09 am

No you're not mistaken, the best part about this card is using it as a SS. And yes, you'd probably only do this if you are NOT running EX Baron or you didn't buy any EX packs.
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Re: Anyone successfully use Rapidshot Magic Archer?

Postby Romdeau » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:19 am

I have to agree with what's been said thus far; I have no idea what the guys in Japan were thinking when they included this unit in the US release. It is trash and perhaps may remain trash for the rest of this games existence unless it is buffed. Even with the release of expansions, I really don't see hope for this card.
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