Why I hate World of Warcraft

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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:58 am

neonsun wrote:i simply hate the game for many reasons, i wont go in details BUT know this
it is because of world of warcraft that you are getting starcraft2 and diablo 3.
if i remember correctly that period of time blizzard was having a lot of problems financially ,and the monthly WOW subscription solved all of that LOL


Where did you hear that? My understanding was that Blizzard was actually doing quite well, starcraft, even years after its release, was still not only selling well around the world, but had evolved into a major league sport in korea and thus years after its years still raking in big bucks. Diablo 2 had also sold amazingly and continued to bring in money years after its release. Warcraft 3's success wasn't as great as starcraft or Diablo 2 but it still sold quite well and had turned a profit with any new sales being pure additional profit. The only reason they really NEEDED WOW to succeed was because they invested SO much of their profit and resources into WOW to get it started, had WoW flopped they thus would have been in serious finicial trouble. Had they instead focused that resources into Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 we might already have those games in our hands now and be waiting on the much anticipated Warcraft 4 sequel instead while people with too much free time and expendable income to burn played Ever Quest 2 or one of the MANY other MMORPGs out there instead.

In the end, in my opinion, the world didn't need another MMORPG, if anything we have WAY too many as it is. The world could have used some more top quality RTS or point and click rpgs though.
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Sarkath » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:05 pm

Had they instead focused that resources into Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 we might already have those games in our hands now and be waiting on the much anticipated Warcraft 4 sequel instead while people with too much free time and expendable income to burn played Ever Quest 2 or one of the MANY other MMORPGs out there instead.

Or they would have waited or been in production while you had no idea about it. Blizzard did a great decision when it comes to these products, they make a great game, and time the next release for the next generation.

This way it will leave you desiring for more, it will give breathing time for the company in order to judge how the next game should be an improved version, such as flaws or rather potential candidates for improvement that might not be visible at the time, but will change over the years... Like Diablo 2, what were they thinking with the drop system? Players will fight over the loot from bosses "Point & Click war" who will get the uniques first? :) Good thing is, that will be changed in Diablo 3... I wonder if that feature would be in if they waited 1-2 years after releasing the Diablo 2 expansion. Those are some of the benefits for waiting several years, but the example taken up is just a very simple feature but I hope it displayed my point.

In the end, in my opinion, the world didn't need another MMORPG, if anything we have WAY too many as it is. The world could have used some more top quality RTS or point and click rpgs though.

But Blizzard thought different. I agree that World of Warcraft is one of the better MMORPG's compared to all these Korean MMORPG's where all you do is grind, grind, grind, grind. Well, Blizzard do what they always do. They make a product that follows the standards of a genre, but Blizzard merely execute the standards better than the other companies. Please the crowd, and earn money. One step closer to be the enlightened one in this society of capitalism. :lol:

You will get your Warcraft 4. I think it's way too early to produce a Warcraft 4 but it will come. Just enjoy the other awesome games that comes out, although I have to say that there are nearly no master pieces nowadays... I'm still ending up playing good ol' Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate, Myst, The Longest Journey and such games since there's basically no game that can stand up to the quality of these.
Sarkath out. :ugeek:
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby TokoTamer » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:50 am

I understand where you're coming from Dan, but I can't really relate too well. I've been very fortunate in that, I haven't lost a single friend to the game, I've only gained friends, both in game and people in real-life with other people who have a common interest in WoW. =)

I'm currently a decently geared (full epics in both my PvE and PvP sets) level 70 Undead Rogue on Kalecgos (a PvP server) in a well-progressing raiding guild. I still get sleep an still have a 'life'. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kalecgos&n=Zofis

And paying $45 every three months is the way to go IMO, not 15 every month. ;) Paying a larger amount less often leaves me with money for plenty of other things like video games, and boosters for all of the different TCGs I play. And, I'd gladly give Blizzard my money for the upkeep of such a well done game, as I would give for Alteil if it was required. ;a18

I love WoW, and see myself playing for much longer, Lich King will be great. =D
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Joharassit » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:42 pm

Hello All,

I would like to comment on this thread, personally I love WOW & I would like to know what people mean by grinding lol, I know in general what it is, but there are to many quests to do in the game to even be justified to waist your time grinding.

Since Wrath Of The Lich King came out I have got nearly 1000G just playing my DK (my new favorite class lol) & all that gold I have accumulated while grinding, selling soul bound drops, trash items & giveing green items to a buddy to disenchant & then I sell that on the AH.

I have 2 professions, but have not started them because I don't have to because the money I have gotten from the above listed, I dont have to start my profs yet in my opinion.

I will agree to some extent yes this game is very addictive & yes it is a time waster & can inpact your social life, but in my opinion it is how you approch the game that will impact your social life.

I choose not to play the game around the clock, because I know I have a life, work, family, friends & so forth, but yes I have seen the damage that WOW can cause, apparently my oldest brother will be getting a divorce because all he ever does is play WOW & it has effected his wife & only child to the extent now, he apparently sleeps in his work truck at nights.

Also my other older bro bought the latest expansion for his GF, himself & I & the 2 of them are so glued to that game, that my bro stays up untill approx 2-3 in the morning playing & is so damn tired in the morning he always has to leave work early, but low & behold once he gets home, he is back at it & his GF since she got the expansion, she has been deliberatly skipping work to play WOW.

So yes I agree this game can in fact effect your life socially & so forth, but it's how you approach the game I have always felt, I have never let the game get to me like that & deliberatly play other games to get away from it, or just say F it & leave the house & just be active.

So anyway thats just my 2 cents, yes it is addictive & I have seen 1st hand what it can do, but at the same time, it is the person who plays it that has to realize if it gets to that point, they must realize they have a problem of sorts & need to work it out.

Take Care :)
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Grain » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:21 pm

Addictive is such a strong word.

I wouldn't believe anyone could truly be "addicted" to WoW if I hadn't heard about those few WoW-related deaths.
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Kamerynn » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:54 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you're "addicted" to WoW, or simply like it and play it casually, it's because your MMO diet is too limited; you don't realize that a $15 dollar monthly fee is a scam when you're expected to pay even more for new content (read: expansions).
I used to be just like you. I was a sucker that paid the monthly fee for *years*, getting to level 60, then 70 when BC came out. Despite that I had already paid them well over $300, I was expected to shell out more cash for extra content. And I did.

Don't get me wrong, it isn't the game that I hate (unlike the OP). I played the hell out of kara, grulls, mags, ssc, and the eye, and I ended up with tier 5 tanking gear on my main (warrior) and S3/S4 pvp gear on my mage. Having experienced so much more of online gaming, I look back on my WoW experience with mixed feelings. Yes, I enjoyed my time, but I could have played games that don't try to scam their users with a monthly fee and *still had fun.*

The monthly fee would have been justified if new content was included for my cash (including the expansions). However, players of WoW got no such thing. All the weapon models were rehashed from the old game (the S3 two-handed sword, for example, has the same model as a sword out of Zul-gurub, an end game instance at level 60. J'thrang the great apocalypse, or w/e it's called, out of the newest 10 man had this model as well). In the new expansion, they're reusing Naxx and making it a level 80 dungeon (Naxx was the tier 3 dungeon from the level 60 game). Not only is the "new" content not new at all, but you're expected to pay yet more for it, as though you haven't been paying all along.

WoW is a scam. Get out there and experience other MMOs, if, like me, MMOs are your thing. Hopefully you'll figure out that you're being scammed too.

Edit: I just had to comment on Deus Ex and Baldur's gate, mentioned by a previous poster. Awesome games! And the black isle games like Baldur's gate are actually written by TSR (now WotC) authors. Imagine that - a story line written by actual writers and edited to perfection! Keep it up, black isle. ;th2
Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Phades » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:35 pm

Allied wrote:The reasons why wow is good,
1. Biggest MMORPG
2. Has alot of end game content.
3. Has amazing pvp
4. Has alot of updates and content added
5. It really is the best mmorpg or 10 mill would not be playing it.
6. Its not a big grind as alot of people think, While lvling you can group and quest.


1. A larger community per server (this is the important part) is what keeps this style of game thriving. The actual population numbers are out of date and that gets thrown around as marketing hype to draw in more people.

2. Older games have more, or rather the "endgame" gets pushed forward more the older the game gets, while newer games have less overal content in the MMO world. This isn't trying to say that what is there is good or bad, it is just to state the way things work. What is there in Wow for the endgame isn't terrible though compared to some other offerrings to be certain. Also, the definition of what qualifies for "endgame" varies from person to person.

3. Er, anything based out of auto attack figures is not something I would describe as amazing. It is easy to be caught into the numbers game, where the appearance of scaling makes for "more interesting" fights. This does not constitute a "better" core pvp system. Personally, i couldn't pick a "best" overal, but it is easier to identify strong points versus weak ones. An example of this would be any instanced (read structured) pvp setting being a better mechanic to base pvp off of opposed to open pvp which devolves into varied levels of grief play given the nature of RNG based auto attack figures combined with gear generated pre-determined results between two individuals with the IQ above a turnip.

4. (See #2)

5. SWG had a large following of people initially, but SOE mismanaged it. The game its self was one of the worse setups i've seen in ages and didn't touch it from what i saw when my friends were playing it. It drew in its community from the star wars franchise. The same could be said about WoW. The number of people who have subscribed for this game i would say are a combination of 3 things. First it was released at a time lull in the market where some titles were getting stale and something new was desireable. Second it had the Warcraft legacy behind it. Third blizzard didn't take an overly slow approach to getting the game stable initially which retained a large portion of the early community and in turn helped build it through word of mouth advertisement. Many games have failed in the first 6 months of release, despite retaining enough of a community to keep generating profits. You can view this when servers are initially expanded and later collapsed to consolodate server populations together.

6. You basically do this in every MMO in existance. What people refer to as the grind is specifically what you describe and basically equates out to a few keystrokes here and there (or bot) while watching a movie or the screen casually with little interaction with what you are doing given the situation compared to other genres. Basically the tolerance for each individual towards this style of play varies, but typically equates out to "the grind" in the end. Attempting to lump group play into the social aspect specifically away from killing mobs repetitively is a bit niave. The questing aspect, especially repeatables, is grinding as well. I mean seriously, i know people who call them fetch and fed ex runs instead of quests anymore... Across at least 3 MMO "style" games i know people that even stoped reading the flavor text (read plot) entirely, in order to speed the process up in NEW games they have never played, because the mechanics are exactly the same and they don't feel like wasting the time on it anymore due to all the in game help tools that spell almost everything out for you objective wise.
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Kamerynn » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:25 pm

Excellent response, Phades. I'd like to add a few things:

1. and 5. The "size" of a game (population per server, or overall) does not make a game great. That would be like saying that kraft dinner is the best food because so many people eat it. I believe Phades addresses 1. and 5. nicely. That isn't to say it's not fun at all; it clearly attracted a large player base because it's a decent game. However, there are so many other options out there that most people haven't heard of. Upon trying them, you might be surprised to suddenly realize that WoW is far from unique in terms of game play.

2. In a sense, WoW doesn't have all that much end-game content. As I've said, the end game content is simply recycled from old end-game content a fair bit of the time, and I mean everything from storyline (derived even from other blizzard products) to weapon/armor models, and even entire instances. Running through all the end-game content would only take a day or two if you didn't have to repeat a given instance dozens of times (at least) in order to progress to the next one. Combine that with the fact that they can only be run once per week, and you have the illusion of a lot of content.

3. I simply have to disagree with how "great" the pvp is. It's average at best. There are a wide variety of opinions on this, and they're all (including mine) just that: opinions. I've been more impressed by the pvp in other games. Of course, most WoW players don't have much of an MMO variety in their diet, so their opinions tend to be one-sided.

4. WoW does have content updates, but it damn well better for the monthly fee that is being charged. Of course, despite the monthly fee, some of these updates still carry an additional charge (expansions). Other games are free and also have plenty of content updates.

6. Yes, all MMOs are a "grind." The original RPGs were all grinds. Take a look at the first final fantasy or dragon warrior, for example. People who complain about this should perhaps play something else - some of us like to kill monsters, and some of us don't mind doing it over and over, at least for a while. For what it's worth, I stopped reading WoW quest text around level 10 or so; Phades is definitely hit the nail on the head with that one. I don't know anyone who bothers reading the flavor text. Almost all MMOs have work to do in order to really immerse players in a storyline - WoW is certainly not unique in that respect, either. Only Black Isle games have managed to immerse me in their storylines. The game play in Planescape sure could use some work, but there isn't a more involving storyline in the history of RPGs, in my opinion. Of course, the MMO D&D variants are still failures in this respect.
Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby Phades » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:51 am

Kamerynn wrote:1. and 5. The "size" of a game (population per server, or overall) does not make a game great.

For the genre the actual playerbase playing is important on certain levels. Things like party play, player driven economics, and pvp simply don't work regardless of design if there is not a large enough minimum players actually playing the game at any given time. This is why I was attempting to place emphasis upon population per server. It would be similar to the difference between playing never winter nights (single player with npcs) and never summer nights (multi player mod option), but without the option of changing between the two styles of play (see guildwars instancing).

Kamerynn wrote:2. In a sense, WoW doesn't have all that much end-game content. As I've said, the end game content is simply recycled from old end-game content a fair bit of the time, and I mean everything from storyline (derived even from other blizzard products) to weapon/armor models, and even entire instances. Running through all the end-game content would only take a day or two if you didn't have to repeat a given instance dozens of times (at least) in order to progress to the next one. Combine that with the fact that they can only be run once per week, and you have the illusion of a lot of content.
This touches upon the aspect of "the grind" and another issue i didn't bring up, because it is a general one associated with MMORPG games in general. That issue is the actual leveling aspect of the game. Since everything that is "the best" ends up being the higher level items from higher level encounters and assuming that the power scaling of the players when working together at that level allows for more "difficult" encounters. This leads towards the "rush" to the "endgame" and simply makes all the levels in between "the grind" before the "real game" begins. This is a fundamental flaw in the majority of the designs within this genre of games in general. The introduction of level capped instances in FFXI detracted from this to a degree, but since the core of the game was still the classic MMORPG, it still contained the element of rush and the level caps just added an element of challenge (and frustration from itemizations at times...).

Kamerynn wrote:3. I simply have to disagree with how "great" the pvp is. It's average at best. There are a wide variety of opinions on this, and they're all (including mine) just that: opinions. I've been more impressed by the pvp in other games. Of course, most WoW players don't have much of an MMO variety in their diet, so their opinions tend to be one-sided.
Personally i have yet to play a game that i feel has done PvP "right" yet within the genre. Balance issues aside, there are many different mechanics from many different games that simply do not cross over, but if combined would create the beginings of an environment for pvp that would start to qualify as "amazing". Moving away from the basics, such as defined roles, teams, team play, and goal orientated combat there are several "core mechanics" i have observed that really deserve to be pushed forward more. The Age of Conan combo system and positional style combat, which also includes the generic defensive manuvers and "shield system" isn't perfected yet, but a brilliant concept building on the generic auto attack based dogma that rules the genre. The positional style and movement based evasion on ranged combat within guildwars, combined with ground targetable options found in other games would also be a major improvement. Taking those two basic elements and combining it with Wii style sword control combat or Oblivion esque control (which needs to be updated more and improved) would be the basis of a foundation for something that could realistically be labeled as "amazing pvp".
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Re: Why I hate World of Warcraft

Postby edgarfigaro » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:13 pm

No offense Dan, but I think the whole hatred stems from your hatred that Blizzard has pooled their resources into something that you don't like. The fact is, the game is just as polished if not more so than any of their previous outings (Diablo, Starcraft, Warcraft). It is just as much a part of the world of Warcraft as I, II, and III are. Almost zero concessions have been made to have WoW be released. And also, Blizzard releases games at a minimum of four years apart, so saying they've slowed their production of non MMORPG games is a little weak. Both Diablo III and Starcraft II are coming out 2009. I'd be happy for that.

If WoW is not your cup of tea, so be it. It may not be for everybody.
"what on earth did you just say? did someone nerf your keyboard?" ~Spears
I feel that way all the time Spears, all the time.
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