The death of the CCG?

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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby garcia1000 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 pm

Is UFS the CCG that had a really complicated system, and was targeted at a market segment of "Fighting game players who also are CCG players?"

Sounds like "Fighting game players who also are CCG players" is one of the smallest markets ever, amirite? Not surprising that you fail if your target audience is a dozen people.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby ANIMEniac » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:56 am

Yea, it was a bit much. I don't remember all, but there were stuff like "momentum" to combo your moves and what not.

It was an attempt to turn a CCG into a fighting game. But really, if people wanted a fighting game they'd play a "real" one.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby DanTheTimid » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:28 am

To be fair, it wasn't entirely fighting games, they had a Penny Arcade set for instance, targeting fans of the popular video game cartoon satire website, and their unique license Shadowar wasn't based off anything. But yeah, most of the licenses were fighting game licenses and the game had a fighting game style too it, and though it really wasn't as complicated as some people made it out to be, it definitely wasn't yugioh simple. I think the thing that made it seem so complicated was just that it was so different, in a day in age where it seems like half the card games that come out are just a slight revision of some other existing card game (mostly magic the gathering), it really couldn't be compared to anything. Having a reference point always makes it easier to learn a new card game, but it also often has the downside that if a game is say, a lot like magic, that the player your teaching often eventually begins to wonder "why am I not just playing magic?".

That is an interesting side of the issue with the dying CCG genre though, if you make a game too similar to magic, the game dies cause everyone eventually just goes back to playing actual magic, if you make it completely unique, its hard to bring in players cause many people prefer the familiarity of magic, sort of your darned if you do darned if you don't.

It should be noted that UFS came out and became big well before the resurgence of the fighting game genre (aka SF4s release). Street Fighter 4 and even Soul Calibur 4 both came out pretty much after the game was already on its death bed, so the game thrived early on more due to its game mechanics then on popularity of its licenses, probably why it lasted as long as it did.

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On the subject of LCG to alteil comparison, EX packs basically gives you 2 rares, 3 commons for 4 dollars. Thats about 5 rares, 12 cards total, for 10 dollars compared to the LCGs 10 rares, 40 cards total for 10 dollars, and the only reason LCG cards are as expensive as they are is do to the ever increasing cost of printing cards, a cost alteil does not actually have. So ex packs don't compare very favorably to the LCG cost to content ratio, but that shouldn't really come as any big surprise. But the style is pretty similar so it does seem to explain why the ex packs are so popular with a lot of players even in spite of their price gouging. Really does make you wonder how much, if any, extra players and sales alteil might have if their ex packs were permanent and priced like LCG packs.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby Harion » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:19 pm

"it's jz the economy, stupid"

really, it is.
ppl's incomes are shrinking and spending habits are changing
where once spenders have the expendable income they can opt to splurge on hobbies
now, they are forced to pick certain pleasures over others
would i like to keep spending on alteil or take out my girlfriend and watch Avatar on the big screen?
where before, we never got to the point we had to choose, now we do

and really, who in their right mind would choose chasing rares as a pleasure?
CCG suddenly drops down the list of priorities

i'd rather eat out, have a grand time, splurge on booze, women
than experience pain and frustration chasing rares

see what i mean?
the moment the economy gets better
those CCGs that survived will flourish once again
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby Tomazas » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:30 am

They say MTG is doing well, but in my country MTG is dead, I played it for 6 years, been to nationals and like, it was huge, with 100 people coming to even local tournaments 3-4 years ago, and when it went downhill, people stoped coming even too pre-releaseses of new sets, and no tournamets held for last half a year. Yu-Gi- HO still has some folowing, but this is on "mom give me money" basis, no other TCG even started (well we tried bit of WOW TCG, but it failed to atract playerbase).
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:19 pm

Tomazas wrote:They say MTG is doing well, but in my country MTG is dead, I played it for 6 years, been to nationals and like, it was huge, with 100 people coming to even local tournaments 3-4 years ago, and when it went downhill, people stoped coming even too pre-releaseses of new sets, and no tournamets held for last half a year. Yu-Gi- HO still has some folowing, but this is on "mom give me money" basis, no other TCG even started (well we tried bit of WOW TCG, but it failed to atract playerbase).


Actually that seems to be the case for my area too, a number of card shops whose primary focus was Magic The Gathering (Beyond Gaming and Mana Works both come to mind) both saw their numbers dwindle and dwindle until they were forced to shut down. I just learned this weekend another local shop I used to go to for card tournaments (though it focused more on comics then cards) went out of business, and several other shops that were big time places to go if you were into cards have apparently moved to smaller locations because they couldn't afford their rent at their old locations. So to be quite honest, I'm not even really seeing Magic doing all that great anymore either, and even Yugioh seems to be on life support as most of their meeting places for tournaments seem to have gone under.

Now that said, the fact those games are doing poorly in a few locations does not mean they are doing poorly everywhere, but it does seem like at least in some areas where they were once huge that even the big two of CCGs are dying or already dead. The CCG business model just doesn't seem to be working like it once did (not that its ever really worked great for anyone outside of the big two).
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:17 pm

I know an owner of a card shop personally. He tells me that similar shops hardly make money off the CCGs. Most have to keep afloat by selling other types of merchandise. He recently expended into board games and comics. Another store i know is pretty big among the CCG players, but they are very generous in prizing. Their revenue is also from the comics, not the games.

I think part of the reason why is that they are completely out done by the online sales and secondary markets. After all, with an online venue you don't have to pay rent.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby LoneKnight » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:30 pm

Most card shops I know are part of the secondary market. And there are online shops for EVERYTHING so balming the declining in sales on that doesn't feel right unless CCGs had a backlagg of about 10 years on it for some reason.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby garcia1000 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:10 pm

Maybe another part is that "pay a lot of money to play a game" is less interesting now that there are so many other options on the internet.
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Re: The death of the CCG?

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:49 pm

Missing what I am saying. Just trying to sell the game products alone isn't much profit (if any at all). Even secondary market can be mediocre. Worst is that lots of customers who want to buy will end up looking online to buy the product for much cheaper (like on a release day). I know some players will just all pitch in and get a cheap case online instead of buying at the store. Before the mass market of the internet, everyone had to go to the small shops to get what they wanted. Now you got a huge open market (both professional online stores and ebay) as well as the big conglomerates like Target and Wall-mart trying to get a piece of it (able to sell for a bit less or come with specials).

Also, secondary market easily gets flooded with all the ways "normal" people can sell/buy (ebay).

So, not only is the game pretty costly to players, it is also costly for the merchants/stores.

It could be simply the fact that CCG are heading "out of trend", waiting for another opportunity to spring new life into it. Might mean that the game needs quite a different approach to survive. BRING ON THE VIRTUAL HOLOGRAM CCGS!!
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