Other tcgs?

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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby DanTheTimid » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:49 pm

I think its worth mentioning though that getting all the cards is ALOT harder for a free player then it is in alteil. The reason is that, as far as I can tell, not only is the amount of free cards you can get capped (even if its a pretty high cap) but free cards are always given from the "basic" pack. Because of this basic pack cards values are MUCH lower then the value of cards from any other pack which makes trading your free cards for non-free cards rather difficult. It can still be done but your generally going to have to luck into either a ridiculously foolish trade offer or pulling several of the highest rarity cards from the basic pack since those are the only basic pack cards with real trade value.
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby Chronomaster » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:59 pm

Man I hated Mytheria. Completely imbalanced. It was a total mess.

Plus, I ran through every campaign with Blue-Purple rush. Easiest thing ever.
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby DanTheTimid » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:05 pm

Chronomaster wrote:Man I hated Mytheria. Completely imbalanced. It was a total mess.

Plus, I ran through every campaign with Blue-Purple rush. Easiest thing ever.


Yeah it was clearly made by a guy who, while a decent programmer and clearly a very avid card game fan, was not a very high level card game player. That's why most good card games tend to hire their top players to work for them in card design and balance because you can love card games all you want, but if you can't play them at the highest level your neither going to be able to concoct the truly great card designs nor are you going to be able to effectively balance the game at a high level of play and no matter how hard you may want a game to be casual, any game that involves winning is eventually going to devolve into finding the best strategies at the highest level of play. Mytheria clearly wasn't balanced for high level play (or just well balanced in general) and the games longevity (or lack there of) shows it.
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby Tomazas » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:43 am

There is a new version of warstorm - planetstorm. Its SF, like terminator, humans vs machines, but the idea stays the same
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby DanTheTimid » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:07 am

Tomazas wrote:There is a new version of warstorm - planetstorm. Its SF, like terminator, humans vs machines, but the idea stays the same


Saw it, played it, was EXTREMELY unimpressed. It really is just Warstorm with another liscense slapped on top and the stats made unnecessarily larger (stats now go by sums of 5 instead of 1, so a 3 attack 4 hp unit is now 15 attack 20 hp) so that it wouldn't be compatible with warstorm. I guess the idea behind it was that there are players who refuse to play Warstorm because they hate medieval themes, but will play planetstorm because it has sci-fi themes. Or maybe they figured rather then come up with new and interesting cards it'd be easier to remake the original game all over again and their card game starved fans would buy packs to re-get the same cards a second time under a new liscense. Whatever the case might be, it still plays the same and has the same horrible balance issues of Warstorm so I don't see myself playing it any further.
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby ValVolt » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:36 pm

What kills me when reading the above posts is that it's not impossible to make a game balanced, no?

I am a terrible player, but if I needed my game to be balanced, I would ask to the player communitee to come up with good ideas... Don't these game have such a community of people actually interested in making the game better?

I've also read that the community in Alteil is not that big - how do you explain that: is the game too young in its english version, or is the ramp-up phase too difficult? What is good is that the game complexity rather imply some natural selection process ;attack but if it's difficult to grow the community, then maybe something like a tutorial-based event versus AI opponents (similar to the Quests DanTheTimid was refering to in Warstorm?) could be a nice addon to the game?

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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:30 am

Here's the thing, not everyone agrees that a game SHOULD be balanced. Even months after the ban list in yugioh I still knew players who felt that the game was better back when everyones decks were identical to each other running the same 20-30 cards from the ban list. Score made quite a lot of money with Dragon Ball Z and Yu Yu Hakusho card games releasing a handful of ridiculous rare cards in every set that were clearly stronger then the common cards not to mention making each set stronger then the rest. Now sure it was short term gains and now the name of Score is so smeared that many other wise good titles they've tried to release fell flat on their face since players like me don't trust anything with the Score name brand, but I'm sure there are members of score who'd do it all the same way again if given the chance.

Remember the number 1 most important thing to almost every card game company is making money. They're a business, and if they feel they can make more money by releasing imbalanced cards, many of them will do it. The reason not EVERY company does it is because it has a tendency to provide short term gains with severe long term losses and most companys want their game to last. Its also just a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to make imbalanced cards then to make new sets that have interesting enough cards that players would want to buy them anyway.

I'd TRULY love to see computer AI opponents in Alteil, but again it needs to be pointed out that because of how Warstorm works (Playing out like the card game War with neither player having any control on the outcome of the game beyond determining which cards are in their deck) its very easy for them to make computer AI opponents and quests, all they need to do is come up with interest decks and their battle system is naturally handled by the computer anyway. Alteil on the other hand has such a complex battle system that creating even a mediocre AI would require an immense amount of time and effort. I admit in my spare time through college I crafted computer AIs for virtual card games I crafted, so it can be done, but it still takes alot of time and man power that needs significant guaranteed monetary rewards to justify a company hiring some one to do it. I think Alteil would have those rewards, but I can't guarantee it, and there in lies the problem.

That said, I have heard that they have been in production of a more interactive, more game-like tutorial for english Alteil. It doesn't sound like its a true AI, but that it should make getting into the game easier for beginners. Here's hoping.
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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby ValVolt » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:39 am

How naïve am I.

I always do remember this motto, when doing business: if you're looking forward to doing something good, then money will flow out of it. If you're looking for money, then you will fail.

I as such completely failed to see that some people are looking towards immediate ROI rather than building something sustainable in the long run. I would tend to say that they're going the wrong way, but now in their shoes I don't know if I would still say this so I will stop here :ugeek:

About the AI in Alteil, I was thinking of some interactive tutorials. The decks would be preset, and your options would be limited. This could be done in a quest-like fashion, meaning you'd win certain fixed cards that you'd have to play at a certain time in order to move forward.

These could be like puzzles: your avatar reaches a bridge where a guardian is standing. Then, you move into game mode. The battlefield is already prefilled with cards, and you have to choose the right card or the right card combination to overcome your opponent, or to close a certain card, or to do some other effect. This could be a way to teach combos, to teach how to use targetting effects, etc.
Simple example: you need to kill a creature in one turn, but you don't have the gun power. Solution: kill your creature so that a direct damage dealing SS can be triggered.

AI would not be so much involved in these games of 'play one or two cards'; this would look similar to chess problems where you can "make White win in 2 turns".

Now would this not be nice?

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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby quinnr » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:46 pm

This topic got huge while I was gone. Anyway, warstorm and duels both are awesome. I played those for a while.

Alteil is the best free one, you can get a card a day at least, without paying anything. ( ;a18 card lottery).
;loading Your brain must still be loading... ;loading

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Re: Other tcgs?

Postby DanTheTimid » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:31 pm

The puzzle idea is a great one, I'd be all over it if I had any say in the matter. The free puzzles are simple ones just for teaching players the basics, the more complex puzzles must be purchased but give out slightly greater rewards then the same amount of gran invested in the lotto or pack, that sort of thing would be fantastic and at the very least would stimulate some one like me into finding a way to buy some more gran. Your both helping beginners and drawing in more revenue with the same concept.

Of course it all comes down to again, is the trouble of making the puzzles and the puzzle system worth what you get in return. Theres lots of ways to teach beginners that don't require so much work and its unclear how many extra sales the buy-able puzzles would bring in, so its not immediately clear. That said though, it would make the game more impressive for having such options, and that also counts for something.

Anyway we've gotten quite a bit off topic, so I played a game called Maganic Wars, its apparently still in early beta. My early impressions were... less then impressed, it amused me for a half hour or so but I can't really see myself playing it long term. If I do play it more I'll give more detailed impressions but it probably isn't fair to review it while its still in beta. I will say its a very simple system, you have a hand of like 5 or so cards but can only play one card a turn no matter what as far as I can tell. In what I was able to play I couldn't figure out how to get new cards beyond the starter but your avatar actually affects things, causing certain types of cards to do more damage for instance, and leveling up improves the stats of your avatar so it definitely has a more rpg-ish feel then your typical card game.
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