Phantom of The Requiem

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Re: Phantom

Postby crimsonshade » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:16 am

Demongod wrote:As for warning her...because she was really far off and odds are the assassin didn't notice her.


Doubt it. Otherwise, he shouldn't call himself an assassin... >.> And anyway, Reiji wouldn't know all this, so his first instinct should be to warn her, or turn around and see who did it... not stand there like an idiot with that smile plastered on his face.

Demongod wrote: Basically, it's sort of a case of "Never found the body". We (the viewer) do not have 100% indication of death. If they absolutely wanted to milk a second season, they could (if they really felt like pulling a Mwu La Flaga on us) have all three get up (including Cal). Just that I don't think there's anything left to milk considering the rest of the cast is dead.


Heh, there's still that girl that likes Reiji actually

Demongod wrote:Edit: and even if it was a heart shot...what did Elen in ep 10 teach us about getting shot through the heart?


Oh yea... Point taken. Head shot then? Reiji must have a weak spot somewhere...
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby Peralisc2 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:07 am

It's an anime. Weak spots are mostly none to inexistent. They could come up with anything they want i guess, after seeing Elen back from an obvious death. Sure there are cases where people in real life are shot in the heart and survive. Those are brought into an emergency operation and taken immediate care of. They survive because the bullet didn't hit an important vein in their heart. But look at Elen, she falls deep into the water and i somehow can't get myself to believe Scythe tells one of his guys to jump into the water and get her, which would explain the entire outcome.

Well it's one of those silly anime endings where you don't know exactly what the damn ending is. I so can not endulge the lame excuse of "it was a dream, Elen also got shot, she was down on the grass smiling back to Reiji", that's just silly and in which case i could also say Guts at the ending of the Berserk anime was in a dream (i honestly thought that was the case until i've read the manga).
It's just that if i see no real and clear ending, then i can believe whatever i want. See for example Wolf's Rain ending, you can make lots of weird interepretations that are believeable, guess it's left "unfinished" since most people will believe to have seen whatever they wish to have seen and thus create their own perfect ending in their mind - the anime studio's intent. A good way to please more people.
To make things worse, wasting time with american movies has thought me one important thing, they can make any ending possible for a show, even the most idiotic ones ... a hero / main character just won't freaking die already, reason i stopped wasting time with those ...


Cal being on the carriage, crossing by to take revenge again, since Reiji didn't double check if she was yet dead, would look like one of the things they'd do in this show ... that's not awsome at all, that's just threesome!! :lol:
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:41 am

I was disappointed and in a big WTF moment at the ending as well. This is from someone who has played the game and painfully went through all routes and endings (unlike a PC game, a DVD doesn't allow "skip read scenes").

It's been so long since i've played the game, so i can't recall exact scenes from game to compare to the anime. But the ending for Ein/Elen was "happier". I can't accept the fact they could let their guards down so much to end up with a bad ending like that.

Interesting bit: one of the amusing endings to the game is when he pimps out the other 7? girls and ends up taking over Inferno XD
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby Peralisc2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:56 am

Well the shot at the ending might have been a dream, like back when they were driving in the car ... "collective imagination"? :?
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:15 pm

Which episode is that dream in the car? Can't quite remember it.
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby Demongod » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:28 pm

25, after Cal gets shot.

She has this dream about him asking what happens if they get separated again and she says "we'll just keep searching for each other" (which of course sounds a bit silly...hey, you two...it's called a cell phone).

And Reiji in the real world says "We just messed up somewhere, that's all"...

Which was a tongue in cheek bit of dialogue I think because...

[img]imageshack.us/img27/5804/phantomg.jpg[/img]
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:59 pm

hmm, i think this might be some kind of link towards the game. I slight look into the Reiji+Cal ending. And possibly a joke with the way he says "We just messed up somewhere, that's all" in reference to the path choices.

That scene was a "what if" scenario. You know how often during/after a death shootout between lovers/friends usually end up with something like "if only i met you sooner, we could have..."

On the ending, doesn't fit to well with me. You only hear 1 shot and Elen is left alone. Inferno should know the 2 phantoms are working together. Elen looks pretty lifeless at the end, but doesn't seem like she shot herself (no gun by her). My only guess is that in trying to keep it as a dark anime, they felt like making it a happy yet tragic end than a complete happy ending. Of course, this leaves a pretty bad aftertaste for the viewers who were more so rooting for their happy free lives. It could also be a message about no escape from the underworld.
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby Peralisc2 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:32 pm

Well there are other animes that also didn't have any clear ending ... this anime's ending didn't convince me of anything, yes i wish they would make it damn obvious the guy got shot or stayed alive.


Anyways, what anime does even compare at all to this one? From what i've watched:

animes i consider worth watching
- Darker than black dosn't really have same theme, but the characters are evenly lifeless and do act pretty much same way, as mere assassins.
- Gungrave is what i see as being closest to the story and theme, although some might want contradict me that Monster still comes closer to it. Watch it through until the end, it gives one the same feeling.
- Gunslinger Girl is so close story wise i could say they are somewhat related. Probably just a coincidence. I've put the second season on hold at like episode 8 or so, it just somehow lost it's charm ...
- Elfen Lied is comparable at least in the dramatic part.
- Dogs: Bullets & Carnage comes close to being a comparison, because it's about mafia and sad life ... and a lot of drama. But the set up looks really pale, like a person with strongly shaking legs sitting on it's feets.
- then maybe some might mention Devil May Cry and Baccano! I believe none of those are similar, the first one is more like a fantasy-sci-fi and not really a drama, just action+shooting in a good fashion and the second one is indeed about mafia-drama, but it's like a black comedy, mystery and comedy.

mediocre animes
- many mentioned Death Note being similar, but for me it's a completely different thing, since Death Note is more about investigating and drawing conclusions. Also it's only half as good as Phantom, at best it reaches that 50% i mean.

boring animes
- Black Lagoon people say to be close, but it's otherwise. It's more like a "psycho-chaotic-shooting" anime rather than what Phantom is. Also Black Lagoon lacks style.
- Noir is similar storywise, but damn it's lame and boring. It fails to create the same atmosphere and lacks in so many ways to be taken serious ...
I actually seen Noir until episode 17 although i find it incredibly boring. I think the cause for this was not being able to find anything interesting.
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby Demongod » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:25 pm

Of course, I took the time to read through the VN endings today on a wiki and...

There's something that really bugs me about what I've seen from FSN and RftP...that no matter which route you choose, one (or more) of the protagonists get screwed over in someone else's route. As in, the endings for RtfP, by character deaths:

1) Cal dies (Elen's route)
2) Elen dies (Cal's route)
3) Reiji dies (Elen's route but let Reiji get shot in the church after Cal's music stops)
4) None of them die (but Cal is still an antagonist and thereby, still in her own hell, so no happy ending either)

Yet there can't be a 5) GOOD END: the three phantoms clean house and take up life as covert operatives (though Cal could probably pick up just about anything if I interpret the show correctly in that she's a whiz kid).

Maybe I'm spoiled by the GOOD END kinds of endings in Gundam S. Destiny and FFX-2 and such, but...if it's the journey that matters and not the destination, what's wrong with a "the journey to this point was painful, but at least we're happy now" kind of ending?
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Re: Phantom of The Requiem

Postby ANIMEniac » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:59 pm

Heh, what was missing was a harem route XD
With what they had as the endings, I felt they were all good with the tragic lost. It was basically the whole theme behind the game.
There was an ending with Claudia where you actually chose to let her shoot you. It wasn't one of those "bad" endings. It went along that she still loves and remembers you on her way up the underworld.

As for the "good" ending of Gundam Seed Destiny...i am going to say it made the show suck even more than it already was. As a long time Gundam watcher, Gundam is suppose to have it's heavy share of epic last battle tragedies to really push that harshness of war and lost ones. Ugh..i don't want to get too much into it...but it was a huge mess (i mean wasn't the hero suppose to be Shin? and not the return bad-ass Kira). Ending was lame **** "heroes come in and completely wipe bad guys" nonsense...

Good endings are fine in the right kind of stories. Phantom was a "good end" with a last minute surprise kick in the crotch. If anything, it would have been better left with us given a hint that they were still being pursued (like an observer/sniper) instead of knocking them off like that.
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