The Energy Crisis

Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby Spears » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:37 am

wakka9ca wrote:We are not looking at comparison between fossil fuels and others, but a comparison between different alternative energy sources.

I think we were, afterall most of the posts were rebuffing the argument that there is no alternative to fossil fuel. That said, i think most people do agree that nuclear isnt the end as far as energy production goes however it is likely to be the next step, with that finish vault as a temporary waste solution.

Rom i think you misunderstand, cars wont be powered by whichever energy production method we adopt directly but by electricity produced by power stations. Also the analysis of hyrdogen production is slightly off, but work calls.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby Minidomino » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:49 pm

fargone wrote:I read somewhere recently (can't remember where) that a sprawling solar energy farm, using the technology currently available, the size of Victoria Australia would provide enough energy to completely replace the current energy provided by petroleum throughout the world.

Victoria isnt that big on a world wide basis. Im sure if governments committed to this and other kinds of set and forget energy production, infrastructure would be created to enhance the accumulation of resources for their production and costs reduced. Even if such practises remained expensive, having something that costs money is better than having nothing at all. Im sure more use would also lead to better and longer lasting cells due to research and development.

Im not a greeny. But I do often wonder what your city skylines would look like if you were running more clean energy. The smog might even clear enough to make solar panels on the building rooftops more effecient, haha.

If only the whole world wasn't focussed on making a profit above the needs of their fellow man, Im sure agreeable solutions would be within reach.

Completely agree with this. The bold part is the only real problem we really have with energy.

fargone wrote:Im not pretending to have the answers or to argue about whether this or that is viable. I do question rom's response of where would this patch of land be though (for solar cells - no polution) ... it would be on rooftops, on properties, where people choose to put them. It is actually viable in my city to farm electricity by simply putting solar panels on a property and feeding it into the grid (we get paid for that here). It would be inefficient to put them all in one place due to impedence for a start.

Who knows? Maybe solar is silly due to costs, but the fact remains we do have the technology today to provide our needs that way. Its not science fantasy. It might be a financial/infrastructure fantasy though.

There are other means of collecting power, such as hydro-electrity and wind power. Hydro requires the natural resources (my city is mostly powered by hydro-electricity), and same with wind. However, once set up, these are fairly reliable power sources that can supplement and/or replace other sources in some areas.

Again, I say the dollar, while the driving force behind a lot of advances, also remains one of the biggest hindrances to people simply doing what works best locally. Best local practise can build into global solutions... Imagine if someone invested billions into somewhere like Sudan and built a solar plant to feed africa power... its bigger than victoria by a lot and could conceivably feed europe all of its power needs as well.

There are alternative energy sources that can replace oil for good.

Cars which are probably the most dependent on oil, can run on hydro energy or even electricity.


Also the most energy consuming system, the launch of a space shuttle dosn't need oil to be sent into space. Fact.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby fargone » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:30 pm

hmm.. good point.

How much aviation fuel are we still left with? I know Australia produces a lot of it, and continues to do so. I also know some drag cars run on it. This means other car can also run on it (I don't have a great understanding on the subject).

What about deisel.. how much of that is left? What about the possibility of running cars on ethanol? - Change a few seals and your ready. Ethanol can be made out of a lot of stuff we throw away - same for methane.

Our local rubbish tip collects and burns off methane. It was built with the idea of turning it into an electric power plant. The plans are sound and the government is moving toward the power-plant's construction.

Oh, and I did read somewhere recently that fossil fuel are actually able to be replenished... but we won't be around to see it, haha.... hahahhahaha
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby azurewrath » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Opps, I didn't mean H2. I meant to say He3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3

I've played many games where He3 was used as the basis of energy in the future. There are apparently sufficient supplies of it on the moon. Obviously, we should make a space elevator ala GUNDAM 00 and get some : D

On a more serious note, the Earth is overpopulated. A few millions dying won't mean a thing in the short or long run since the population will eventually cap at 10 million anyway (at the current production and rate). That number will dwindle if we run out of energy. It will no longer be 10 million if we run out of fuel to power tractors that make the food for the population. If we don't come up with something, that would be worse than picking an unsavory solution.

Now humans aren't meant to live to 80 or 90 or 100. Biologically, our bodies are a mess after 50 years. It wasn't uncommon for people to die before 40 only 60 years ago. It is only with advanced medicine, hygiene, and refrigeration that has let us survive an average of 70 years or so.

Should we care that some people will be affected by the nuclear waste that comes from nuclear power? Of course we should care. We can try to minimize it. It will always be there though. If the few have to be sacrificed for the many, then so be it. Decisions must be made about the future and not everyone can benefit.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby Scientiafide » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:58 pm

First off, I’d like to state that I tend to be an incredibly cynical and pessimistic person. Despite my negativity, this isn't something I worry about for two reasons:

1) It's beyond my control

2) I think everyone underestimates the rate at which we're currently developing new technology. Regardless of whether the concept of technological singularity is to be believed or not, I still believe technology is developing at a rapid enough pace that these problems will be worked out.

I often hear or read a lot of "doomsday" scenarios being proposed, but I’m often apt to dismiss them as I continue to read about ongoing scientific developments. As far as the idea of a future worldwide energy shortage is concerned, there are current technologies and future technologies in development to prevent it. And hell, as far as future technologies goes, there may be solutions that no one’s even thought of.

I think the public in general is somewhat misinformed when it comes to scientific and technological developments. I’m sure most people don’t realize, for example, that around 1996 or so (15 years ago!), General Motors actually leased the first mass-produced electric car called the EV1. This was a vehicle that worked very well and that had a high consumer-satisfaction rate, but that was ultimately killed simply because it’s currently more profitable to sell cars that run on gas. If push comes to shove, we can just resort to using 15-year-old technology.

As far as greed is concerned, eventually oil and internal combustion engine technology will cease to be the most profitable option. When that time comes, industries will begin to shift towards other, more profitable alternatives (which unfortunately may or may not be the "best" option).
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby wakka9ca » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:28 pm

Scientiafide wrote:I think the public in general is somewhat misinformed when it comes to scientific and technological developments.


I agree with this. You'd be amazed at what crazy things have being done among my colleagues.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby rsvlito » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:57 am

Buy a property out in the woods. Build a fortress/bomb shelter. Stock up on guns and supplies to make bombs. When **** hits the fan and people begin to riot, make your way to your fortress. Live off the land like a boss and kill any intruders because your resources are too precious to share. Don't forget to booby trap your territory and always be ready for intruders who threaten your very existence. Remember, "Knife work, stab you in the heart and the throat And we don't leave till you gargle or choke." Don't assume you killed someone and confirm your kill. Who needs energy when you can live off the land and have guns and bombs to fend off intruders :)

EDIT:
Knives are great too! How could I forget to mention knives. It must be too early for me to be up posting about this lol.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby winfrith279 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:08 pm

rsvlito wrote:Buy a property out in the woods. Build a fortress/bomb shelter. Stock up on guns and supplies to make bombs. When **** hits the fan and people begin to riot, make your way to your fortress. Live off the land like a boss and kill any intruders because your resources are too precious to share. Don't forget to booby trap your territory and always be ready for intruders who threaten your very existence. Remember, "Knife work, stab you in the heart and the throat And we don't leave till you gargle or choke." Don't assume you killed someone and confirm your kill. Who needs energy when you can live off the land and have guns and bombs to fend off intruders :)

EDIT:
Knives are great too! How could I forget to mention knives. It must be too early for me to be up posting about this lol.

You sound prepared for a zombie apocalypse!
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby fargone » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:50 pm

Damn, I just realised... It's 2012 and the Mayan calendar runs out this year - energy won't be an issue cos the world is gonna end :roll:
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Postby Godric » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:27 pm

wakka9ca wrote:
Romdeau wrote:
wakka9ca wrote:Actually one of my friend is researching on splitting hydrogen from water in an efficient way...

Even if a reasonable method is found, cars would still be obsolete because it's way too dangerous to use in automobiles. The pipe infrastructure would still cost hundreds of billions to switch over as well, in addition to the time it would take to swap.

And currently 10% of the energy used in the US is generated from dams. If we maximized and ignored environmental concerns, we could increase that number to 15%.


I really think personal cars should be obsolete. What we need is public transit and reduction of personal cars. Let's admit it: the use of personal car is the main waste of oil for transport. You can really save a lot if people stopped using their family car to go to work and used transit instead. Electric cars exists as well so it gives a bit more flexibility to convert other forms of energy...

For the big truck and transportation system... well once again, if everyone stop consuming like mad...

What we really need though is these future potentials:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power


Can I just say that technically that could work in urban or city environments, it'll be practically impossible in any rural or country environment where it would be entierly impractical to use public transport. If you wanted to make personal cars obsolete, then the rate of public transport would need to be say a bus or train reaching any convenient point of access somewhere between every 15 minutes to an hour at a stretch. The amount of people that would be able to use the public transport in any rural environment would be minimal compared to the distance traveled, and the cost to run busses and trains are much higher than individual cars. The overall cost and impact on the environment of running reliable public transport for comparitively so few people would probably exceed the impact of personal transport.

fargone wrote:Damn, I just realised... It's 2012 and the Mayan calendar runs out this year - energy won't be an issue cos the world is gonna end :roll:

I find it amazing that anyone thought the world was going to end this year because a bunch of ancient people ran out of room on their stone calander.
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