STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby skillll7 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:42 pm

I shiver at 50/50 dodge rolls like Miracle Fruit. The reason why Wisp is so awesome is that it can dodge Sakura and lots of other open skills 100%.
I mean, I'll admit that Death Knight would be decent if it wouldn't die to a Lv 1 grim. Maybe if he had a subtype change to Unknown or -none-.

PS I dislike the creation of Dark Confederation. Immunization to MAX HP change is so unfair against a lot of Refess cards. I would appreciate a change to just one turn.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby Icyman2 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:45 pm

skillll7 wrote:I shiver at 50/50 dodge rolls like Miracle Fruit. The reason why Wisp is so awesome is that it can dodge Sakura and lots of other open skills 100%.
I mean, I'll admit that Death Knight would be decent if it wouldn't die to a Lv 1 grim. Maybe if he had a subtype change to Unknown or -none-.

PS I dislike the creation of Dark Confederation. Immunization to MAX HP change is so unfair against a lot of Refess cards. I would appreciate a change to just one turn.

Counters need to be countered. It's a slot in already tight undead file. Not to mention undead is really unable to perform in the current meta. I've tried a lot of builds with them, but they really can't do anything with the ex cak nerf. (WHY NERF EX CAK WHEN BROKEN VIRUS IS BETTER? WTF?)
The only unit that would be crippled is raste anywho. All other refess cards can still act and do decent damage for their level.
It's unreasonable if it is just one turn. You play the card and keep the status quo but have no further way of advancing field.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby skillll7 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:02 pm

Undeads are unreasonable to begin with - 0 SP to return a card and 3 SP to return 4 cards at the same time on top of cards that are free revive to begin with and have an easy Lv 1 buffer that can double as Assassin bait. No wonder they get past the 'broken' boundary so easily especially on top of SS like Rasam that stall so well.

I don't think a change to 1 turn would be that unreasonable. It would prevent SS like Sergis and units from debilitating you for the turn itself allowing for a Broken Priest buff and a return from PoM. 2 turns would be too much as it would force Sergis and other SS to either be deemed useless the next turn or delayed to turns after that not to mention their own possibly few counters killed in that excess turn. You forgot to mention that a lot of files have trouble with undeads and probably need that 2 copies of Cassandra or that Francis to even make a dent in the file.

What you really want is another card that will bring undeads back to level again, not Dark Confederation's 2 turn effect.

EDIT: Only the top tier decks really handle undeads brilliantly (cough Verlaat) and the reason is most likely being imbalanced.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby Icyman2 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:06 pm

Their offensive power just suck.
I want ex cak unnerfed? Kind of ironic b/c I advocated for an ex cak nerf before the gamepot changeover, but there has been so much powercreep lately that it doesn't seem op at all. Ex cak has been on the ud list ever since the nerf. I'm just pissed because another low rarity file got destroyed. Wk is starting to go too.
Anyways why would you nerf an unit when there is something blatantly better?
There are very few people who use broken priest as sin bait. Fisherchew and monkeysmiles, the 2 names you think of when you think of undeads did not do that.
But broken priest requires 1 sp. It is probably not efficient to go and buff one undead who is on the field. You pretty much need to set up field first, making undeads incredibly slow. As for the free revive comment, I would go with free revive anyday over undead close. Look how much better md augmented is over ex cak.
Last edited by Icyman2 on Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby skillll7 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:08 pm

You can't have extra copies of Broken Virus without going to Refess or using unorthodox means though. And sometimes, you just get annoyed when she gets hit by Sergis SS or other MAX HP hate.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby Icyman2 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:17 pm

It's not like ex cak gets a free ride from sergis. He loses a copy too. 50x2 hp maybe he can tank 4 hits. With sergis on broken virus, she can tank 3 hits. That 50 hp first copy is really good. Not to mention she gets 50 attack when she revives, and every bit of attack counts early game to break through falkow defense.
Ex cak belonged to lawtia, not just to undeads. Broken virus is obviously the go to for lawtia now, and I'm pissed off b/c they made it from some diva set that only a few people have. She is such a stable unit yet there is no way to get her, even with ex lotto as broken as that was. Broken virus has less weaknesses than undeads--booty doll (who now really locks up ex cak since he only has 40 hp--she can kill him with her skill every turn), talisman (yes it's annoying to lose a copy and have to deal with 30 def guardian even though ex cak doesn't close), and whatever else undead hate there are.
Anyways, I propose that they make whatever the best lawtia tank there is in terms of attack first and hp second a 2 star, not an ex and certainly not an unobtainable card.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby skillll7 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:24 pm

skillll7 wrote:What you really want is another card that will bring undeads back to level again, not Dark Confederation's 2 turn effect.


^ This,
and I'd rather they get a new card to be the stable tank instead of EX CAK, personally. Sure, I'd accept an EX CAK buff just not to the point of making undeads go overboard again. I mean, when you use Warning Knife on an undead, there's something wrong >_>
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby Icyman2 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:33 pm

It's not just that. All of the divas are incredibly good. Thorned is a lot better than guardian (she heals b/c she can rest multiple times a turn, she DISENGAGES and ruin rasam, she doesn't counter and kill an unit to trigger assassin... she does her job as a tank like no other refess unit), or look at the +1 sp open girl with a 1 sp action skill that destroys a row. Let's see. A 2nd row super damager... sounds like silverion. Except she is obviously better b/c
1. You gain sp advantage if she gets returned the turn she comes out.
2. Her counter doesn't reset after revive.
3. She doesn't get 1 shot by emana skill b/c she doesn't have high attack. --- main bonus right there
This unit with a tank in front can pretty much decimate an entire refess file.
Student idol archer is a good lvl 3 falkow unit too.
The rest can be ignored b/c although they're good, they're combo units that have no use outside of whatever diva files they belong in. Those 4 units are really good and go into most rush or mid files of that sphere and yet only a few ppl have them.

No one uses warning knife on ex cak. Wtf noob did that? If that's what your problem is, make ex cak 50 hp, 40 attack, 3 agi, no max hp immunity. That's still worse than broken virus.

PS I MEANT STABLE LIKE SHADE, NOT STABLE LIKE DUAL AXE WEILDER.
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Re: STARTER FILE CRITIQUE

Postby Peralisc9001 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:18 am

Power creep often renders any nerfs (sometimes even buffs) useless. I mean often every new set.

Do you know rapid magic archer got a buff? Probably you do, but does anyone really care? No! Because it dosn't matter. CotC buff? LOL who cares?
So even EX cak nerf is pointless, it wasn't more than fine/decent/good card even in the meta when it got released, yes there were far stronger units even back then.


The problem isn't that UD have direct counters, it's that other types of cards don't have direct counters like that.

Also it's good for UD to have a counter to the counter, but the problem is other counters have no counter! See fierte has no direct counter, you can't add return immunity, neither any other kind of field removal immunity to an unit. AGI was supposed to have some counters, but they aren't that good, belfina ain't that good with her low HP.
Sometimes good counters are restricted to EX cards only.

I wish the power creep every set had GOOD counters released along with them, so it's not a game where you pick your disadvantages, but instead one where you plan how to duel!
And that way people would still try to get the new set.
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