Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby darklogos » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:41 am

A lot of hits maybe from trainers. I know at least a 100 hits are from me editing this thing and also passing it out to people I trained.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby Xuande » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:43 pm

Posting mainly to say that I think your opinion on the 10 gran lottery is wrong. I've spent a lot and I still use it - the ability to get at least 30 cards for the same price as a 5 card pack is powerful. And getting 30 is just the worst case scenario of every single card being rarity * (buy 15, recycle for 7 with 5 gran left, recycle for 4, recycle for 2, recycle for 1, then assuming you have 5 gran from the previous lottery use get 1 more card for a total of 30), which in my experience never happens. Even for getting rares I've found a much better value out of lottery than packs or even boxes.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby exemplar » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:27 pm

If you need the commons (one * rarity) lottery is good for you.
If you've filled out all of your commons, it starts to lose some of its luster, but is still decent.

If you're missing a specific 2 star, you want to buy packs for that particular set. Greater chances of getting a third copy this way since packs guarantee at least 2 cards above 1 star.
If you're only missing specific high rarity cards, lottery is usually a bad deal. Filling that third Verlaat you're missing only becomes worse when you have to not only pull a 5 star, but a specific 5 star among all the 5 stars available. With packs you limit it it to a particular set. Expect this to become more of a factor as more expansions are released.

I've tried pulling 45 lottery cards at a time and often came back with a single 4 star and a bunch of 1 stars. Packs on the other hand would sometimes give me two 3 stars. Not that lottery has not been kind to me, I've pulled 5 stars from it too. But in general I think the more cards you have, the less rewarding playing lottery is.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby Xuande » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:14 am

So, for 450 gran, you got a **** plus 220 of your gran back (recycling). You basically spent 230 gran on a ****, which isn't too bad of a result. And then that 230 gran gives you another 23 chances, as do the recycle fodder you get from it.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby Harion » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:13 am

boxes is the best bet IMO
because they're always guaranteed a rare (how many and what stars idk)

but i found that packs give only max 3 stars (never got 4 or 5 stars from packs)
and lottery gives commons or cards i already have

i never trust randomness, and always expect to be screwed over by it
even in deck building, i try to minimize randomness in the fomula

they haven't really been transparent in this subject
and i think card pulls are designed to make us spend more
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby Romdeau » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:44 pm

I've gotten a couple of 5 stars (Catherina and Elena off the top of my head) and several 4 stars-I don't like boxes as much because you're committing a set amount to a particular set. I like to keep my options open in case I get the card(s) I want from one set, I have some gran to try on the other.

So packs don't **** you over.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby DanTheTimid » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:31 pm

I've got to say for me the lottery has been the best bet since it became 10 gran. Its true I don't have 100% playset completion of 1* cards, but I have most, but the lottery still seems worth it because for 150 gran I get 15 tries, even if I only get say 1 ** I need and 2 ** I don't, plus 12 *, then I recycle all the extras for 80 gran and try 8 more times, this time maybe I get 0 ** but I get a *** and a * I need, then I recycle the remaining gran for 30 and get 3 more tries, maybe get a ** but nothing I need, so I try again with my remaining gran, 2 more tries. And now I only get * and none i needed so I recycle again and play 1 last time and bam, I get a * but its a * I needed! I got a ***, **, and two * I needed. From a pack I might not even get a *** at all and the odds that I got a ** and * I actually needed are very low since I only got 4-5 tries total. In my above example I had 29 lottery tries.

Now as more and more sets come out and the cards I actually need from the old sets get smaller and smaller I think eventually the 10 gran lotto will become a bad deal for me, I'd be better off just going straight after the new sets packs or boxes (I'm a fan of boxes for that extra pack and other then set 3 for that guarenteed *****) but even now as I near complete sets of all the low rarity cards, the recycling retries I get seem to still be getting more *** or higher rarities then I was getting for the same amount of gran invested in packs and boxes.

It seems, and this is just a rough estimate mind you, that you get ** every 8 tries, *** every 25 tries, **** every 70 tries, and ***** every 120 tries.

That seems like alot of tries but using those numbers lets assume you have every * and ** in the game already but you play the lotto anyway instead of buying packs. Again rough estimating on average you get a ***** every 15 packs (or about 1 per box), a **** every 10 packs(at least one per box, some times 2), a *** every 2 packs (7 per box)

You've got 2250 gran, enough to buy 15 packs or a boxes worth of packs.

You play the Lotto 225 times instead.

By my estimates you pull 9 ***, 3 ****, and 1 ***** (probably two but I'm assuming your unlucky). You then recycle all the left overs, 28 ** and 184* for a total of 1200 gran and play 120 more times. You get 1 more *****, 1 more ****, and 4 more *** (again each value assuming you get unlucky). You recycle the remaining 15 ** and 99 * giving you 645 gran and 64 more tries. If we use the remainders from the previous tries we should pull 1 *****, 1 ****, and 3 ***.

Ok I'm going to stop here cause you get the point but you'd probably still get atleast 1 more *** out of it that I'm going to ignore. Based just on these numbers already you've gotten 16 ***, 5 ****, and 3 ***** !!! All for the price of a single box worth of packs! Thats compared to 7 ***, 1 ****, and 1 *****.

Now its true I pulled those numbers out of the air based on a very small sample (my own experiences) of the lottery, but if my numbers are even close to correct, do to recycling you can see that even after you complete your collection of low rarity cards the lotto still offers you more chances at the high rarity cards. I'd say the lotto is the way to go unless you've completed almost all of the previous sets and its just the newest set cards you want, that is to say the lottos always GREAT for new players, but does eventually lose its usefulness to long time players with large card collections, but then this thread is for still relatively new players.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:48 pm

I spent about 3000 gran on the lottery, and I ended up getting two 5 stars, no four stars, and about 7-8 three stars only. This is after recycling as well. I mean, I might have been unlucky (i didn't think i was) but I think those numbers are a bit high... 16 three stars, 5 four stars, and 3 five stars isn't even close to what I got, and I spent 800 more gran..
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby DanTheTimid » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:07 pm

luckysvn777 wrote:I spent about 3000 gran on the lottery, and I ended up getting two 5 stars, no four stars, and about 7-8 three stars only. This is after recycling as well. I mean, I might have been unlucky (i didn't think i was) but I think those numbers are a bit high... 16 three stars, 5 four stars, and 3 five stars isn't even close to what I got, and I spent 800 more gran..


Did you recycle every * and ** you got cause that example is assuming you have a complete set of every * and ** and thus recycled every copy of them you got. Every 2 * you don't recycle is one less lottery play, and every single ** you don't recycle is another non-lottery play. That can drastically reduce those numbers. In any case, when dealing with so many lottery tries the range is going to be pretty significant as to how much better or worse then that you could do based on how lucky you get. The only way to know how accurate my numbers really are is for one of our GMs to actually provide us with the lottery percentages which they seem reluctant to do for some reason so all I can do is estimate based on the memory of my experiences with the lottery.
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Re: Hero to Zero: How to transition to Folrart from Crest

Postby luckysvn777 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:37 pm

That's true, as, seeing as it was my first $30, I probably only recycled 20-30%. Even so, in the first draw before recycling in the example, you still got more than I ended up with at the end.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'd love for it to be right. Just being meticulous as right now I'm going to have about 2400 gran left over after some Lawtia EX packs tomorrow to spend to try and get a couple copies of some 2 and 3 stars I want, and i'm trying to figure out where I have the best odds of getting at least a good chunk of these cards. Plus, picking up another great SS from a 4-5 star would be awesome, as my files could use one more good SS.

After all, its my money, I want to spend it as efficiently as possible :D

Ah, the "economics" of Alteil. Crazy stuff
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