What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD spam

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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:34 pm

Who wants alteil to turn out like starcraft with the cheaters and the 100000 wins and 0 losses dudes? The file limit prevents us from becoming that. We'll eventually lose. No such a thing as a file that can counter everything. The best way to get around it is to have 20 files in rotation that you can really play and play well and switch them up every match, no matter how disorienting it is for you to have to pick up a new file every time.

Remove verlaat using aano? Remove ryu using shelby aquamancer ss? Tank verlaat using your front row monsters and hit back with yuni/the level 2? Those were the things I was thinking about. Believe it or not neither verlaat nor miffy nor ryu is unbeatable. Stop qqing b/c everyone has those units now. If you want to nerf them and send back all the newbies to stone age, well, I don't know what to say. At least now they have a chance of beating the top dudes if they play smart and are lucky.
Yes I know I'm a real genius.
What's a 80% winstreak btw? Does that mean you streak 80% of the time?
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby angelspawns » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 pm

Hey look, we are both saying theyre not unbeatable!
Something i agreed with in every ffin post, and something you can't seem to get through your skull.

You make moot points. If you wanna be that idiot, fine. Here's another moot point to discuss: You can stop cards from seeing play by draining SP! It totally works!

Meanwhile id like to talk about powercreep.. wether everybody has it or not.
New players being unable to compete is another discussion entirely, and i always been suggesting ideas to fix that. But powercreeping a Set was never it. :?


Ps; i meant 80% winratio. But yeah, it gets silver star streaks. Great fun as underdog file.
Last edited by angelspawns on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:02 pm

The argument not to nerf because the newbies have them is a valid one. But mid ref is one of the most boring files to play with, or against IMO. You just plop one mid ref unit after another, spend 2 minutes every turn seeing buffs go off, and just slow roll the whole damn time. I mean I suppose the same could be said for the ref sphere as a whole, that every single strategy it has aside from bigs is focused on snowballing crap and just burying your opponent in an avalanche of uber-buffed refess doodz, whether a bunch of buncles reducing your attack to 0, SKs all one-shotting you at agi 4+, mid ref having a zillion HP and defense and just crushing you, or True Retear setting up infinite dragons.

I suppose Falkow can also be boring to play against (oh hey I'm just going to get returned into the abyss), but at least it involves some manner of doing something besides plopping units.

Edit: as for "we all have to lose sometime", it really doesn't feel good to lose because "oh hey derp, you just ran across a crap match". We want to feel like we had a chance, and if we just did A and B differently, we could have won the game. EG in Starcraft "if I had just scouted his proxy gates" or w/e. As for Starcraft, sure, you have cheaters, but what about those who legitimately are good?

Also, the fun thing about starcraft is that yeah, everyone loses, because they have a skill-pairing system that always tries to find equal-strength players and throws better players to better leagues to the point that even the very best, such as WhiteRa, for instance, have 60% winrates. And yeah, I can have a 90% winning file (dolls, for instance), but still get rolled by mid refess fairy blessing over my shelby song and go "well WTF was I supposed to do about that?" That's a really crappy feeling.

See, it's not about win or lose, but about how you lose. When you lose a contested match, you learn, you have fun, you say GG. When you lose just because it's a crap match, your file looks like crap and you generally feel frustrated or resigned rather than feeling like you had a chance. And those losses can linger, especially if they eat your TB-star.
Last edited by AqvasFire2 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:08 pm

My fav sphere is lawtia. Second probs is gowen. So... Refess is too much of the same movements (makes great grind files and very consistent). Falkow just has little flexibility. Everything is just packing returns. Oh opponent doesn't have level 3s. Wtf do I do with my returns? (I think returns should be a 1 grim per game thing and then buff all the falkow units). Plus you have to think about sp management, not like refess and sometimes I just want to play while I'm asleep or drunk.
But the higher ups don't think so. I tried convincing annathered in chat that gowen isn't brainless to play. She ignored me.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby AqvasFire2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Gowen is stupid difficult to play these days IMO because the only option you have is hitting things, and timing your SSs around being able to hit more important things, and how you deal with something that's tough to kill just by hitting it. Oh, and you can't even hit around things. You have to hit through them usually, so your opponent could have the squishiest stuff hiding behind one tank and you'll still be in trouble.

Gowen just doesn't have enough tools these days.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Callonia » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:25 pm

I'm surprised that people is still willing to argue with dg the uselesss iczer.

Its similar to beating your head on a brick wall until your skull cracks and the brain oozes out He's convinced that he's such an awesome iczer and all. Oh and he never shares any amusing replays to watch either. So greedy that dude is. I think he needs a night with Ex pedo hands.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby angelspawns » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:28 pm

Newbies are not going to win by spamming Overdose on Augmented. They should start with files that are easy to understand, learn the basics of building a field. Learn that rush files rely on laying your units and combo's in quick. Learn the value of SP.(Orcs wouldve been fantastic to start with) Right now i see newbs play 2 Augmented and spam tripple Overdose...

Btw, i always try to BALANCE things, NOT to render things absolete. I didn't suggest anything that would make Ryu/Verlaat/Miffy/Aug less playable. I don't want to overnerf anything when my point is making MORE things see play in Folrart. (!)
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Icyman2 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Loggerz think it's funny. I think it should be a once a game grim so I can play shrine knights again.
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Scientiafide » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:39 pm

AqvasFire2 wrote:The argument not to nerf because the newbies have them is a valid one. But mid ref is one of the most boring files to play with, or against IMO. You just plop one mid ref unit after another, spend 2 minutes every turn seeing buffs go off, and just slow roll the whole damn time. I mean I suppose the same could be said for the ref sphere as a whole, that every single strategy it has aside from bigs is focused on snowballing crap and just burying your opponent in an avalanche of uber-buffed refess doodz, whether a bunch of buncles reducing your attack to 0, SKs all one-shotting you at agi 4+, mid ref having a zillion HP and defense and just crushing you, or True Retear setting up infinite dragons.

I suppose Falkow can also be boring to play against (oh hey I'm just going to get returned into the abyss), but at least it involves some manner of doing something besides plopping units.

Edit: as for "we all have to lose sometime", it really doesn't feel good to lose because "oh hey derp, you just ran across a crap match". We want to feel like we had a chance, and if we just did A and B differently, we could have won the game. EG in Starcraft "if I had just scouted his proxy gates" or w/e. As for Starcraft, sure, you have cheaters, but what about those who legitimately are good?

Also, the fun thing about starcraft is that yeah, everyone loses, because they have a skill-pairing system that always tries to find equal-strength players and throws better players to better leagues to the point that even the very best, such as WhiteRa, for instance, have 60% winrates. And yeah, I can have a 90% winning file (dolls, for instance), but still get rolled by mid refess fairy blessing over my shelby song and go "well WTF was I supposed to do about that?" That's a really crappy feeling.

See, it's not about win or lose, but about how you lose. When you lose a contested match, you learn, you have fun, you say GG. When you lose just because it's a crap match, your file looks like crap and you generally feel frustrated or resigned rather than feeling like you had a chance. And those losses can linger, especially if they eat your TB-star.



I know DG often comes across as very belligerent and abrasive so it's often hard to take him seriously, but I actually felt he had a lot of good points here. I feel like the eventual goal for alteil should be to help ensure not just a wide variety of competitive files, but to help ensure you get competitive matches no matter the matchup. Too many one-sided match-ups is indeed a balance issue. I've never said anything on that matter though because I've often assumed that the few unbalanced match-ups I've had were due to the lack of experience in my part (whether it's file building, the way I played my file, etc.). I'd love to hear what the game's vets have to say about this. Hell, maybe expanding the file limit a bit might not actually be a bad thing (or at least, experiment with the idea with a new game mode).
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Re: What's up with the lack of complaints about MD Aug/OD sp

Postby Peralisc9001 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:42 pm

Too many one-sided match-ups is indeed a balance issue.

Why i am not happy with the state of the game.
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perhaps until the game is actually improved through change or perhaps forever since there are so damn many other games and better things to do @_@
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