Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Icyglare » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:43 am

When we first made mikasha, we were actually thinking about nerfing her a little before release. The fact that she can pump out so much damage at the start and Falkow has the most amount of grims that doesn't leave you at a SP disadvantage. But we're glad that we didn't and decided to indirectly buff her (having more cards that deal with cemetery retrieval). She didn't get a buff but we'll monitor card use to see if it warrants an errata in the future but at this time we don't plan on one for her.
Last edited by Icyglare on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:48 am

Icyglare wrote:When we first made mikasha, we are actually thinking about nerfing her a little before release. The fact that she can pump out so much damage at the start and Falkow has the most amount of grims that doesn't leave you at a SP disadvantage. But we're glad that we didn't and decided to indirectly buff her (having more cards that deal with cemetery retrieval). She didn't get a buff but we'll monitor card use to see if it warrants an errata in the future but at this time we don't plan on one for her.


:lol:

You've got their number Icy. I'm not sure if this could have been written any better. :lol:
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Callonia » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:21 am

Ok thanks to jazz, I could find this again. Grand cross slash is even better than I remembered. lol

https://login.alteil.jp/cardDB/detail.php?id=442
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:23 pm

Romdeau wrote:Well then, what would you like to discuss? I will answer what I can to the best of my abilities.


After Gon calls you out, you finally say you will talk about the errata, and then don't address any of the points that have been made by all the people in the six other threads about the errata! Outrageous.

Fine, you want me to repeat my complaints to you all over again in question form? Here's one:

Romdeau wrote:Few weeks? You know that's not realstic. At some point in the future? Very possible.


angelspawns wrote:Why isn't that realistic? Even when it's something as simple as switching Orthos action with start? (as i'm sure you guys forgot to. Better would be make his cem removal into a first startskill...)

So when you **** up and make something close to unworkable, you can't undo the changes untill months later? Wow... You must be really good at this. ;)


A significant amount of cards that were changed are arguably weaker after the errata. I don't expect the cards will ever be reverted back or get buffed instead of nerfed. Regardless, as Angelspawn puts it, if you **** up and make something worse or unworkable, why can nothing be done about it for 6 months or more? Why did PPPO7 ram Overdoses down everyone's throat for months on end before you decided that you should do something about it?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Romdeau » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:39 pm

I tend to ignore posts that come with an aggressive undertone that's setting up for a flame war rather than inquiring behind some decisions. The one you've written here isn't any different, but I might as well say something since I'm replying.

So you think some cards are weaker with their remakes. Possible, but you need to be specific. You're probably talking about the Mermaids. That wasn't my area of focus and the area I was least involved in. I think a little too much emphasis may have been placed on synergy in this case, but not much and I think you're exaggerating. If they are weaker, it's not by much.

And I don't dictate how often errata's are implemented. That is Logress' decision. He is and has always been the ultimate shot caller, I just have considerably more influence then I did previously. This is a team effort, but I'm not the one that signs off on all the changes. I've already posted his decision making process behind being cautious with nerfs and I respect it.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby shadowsketch » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:03 pm

So what was your contribution to the errata Rom? What changes did you like from it? What changes do you think you could have done better?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Romdeau » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:12 pm

As usual, my hand was quite involved with the Gowen and Falkow was probably the least. Lawtia probably comes second, followed by Refess. If you want to get more specific, I think you'll have to name some cards.

As far as Gowen changes go, I'm about 95% satisfied with them. An example of something minor I'd like to change in the future would be to cheapen Berserk's action skill to 0. Dryad soldier might need another stat point as well, but I don't like making too many major changes (because it's so hard to nerf)-working with Logress over time has taught me to be cautious when I can.

I think the ball was kinda dropped on Folfenac, his mark ability should only drain spheres if it activates on a living unit with more than 0HP. Castle Wight is another card we may have to re-visit, he was added later and didn't get as much attention as I think he should've gotten. But to me, some kinda buff is more of a success then no kinda buff.

As for Refess, EX Garfath sticks out and if possible, I'd like to alter his start so the range debuff isn't permanent, but isn't as strong (less DF)-we'll have to see. I would've liked to rework Resource into something a little less techy, and more rain of deathy, but we couldn't figure out a solution.

This is just me kinda rambling some specific examples to hopefully answer your question, but overall I'd say I'm pretty satisfied with this errata. After all, it's not like it's the last one we'll ever do or something.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:23 pm

It sounds like Shiro's assessment was right about you Rom:

Shirozaki wrote:
angelspawns wrote: I know Rom comes to chat to talk, but he hides behind 'not my idea' and 'then don't play it' for most part.

Something I observed on the former and current balance team was that no errata or balancing decision was anyone's idea unless you praised it, which magically made everyone try to claim the position of sole contributor.

That said I agree with the purpose of the thread, even if it is just to break the awkward silence that was supposedly to-be erased the moment Logress became Alteil's Evil Overlord.



Isn't a balance "team" supposed to collaborate? Shouldn't the balance team have a good depth of understanding about a variety of files, there good and bad matchups, the shaping forces of the meta... and when they are lacking such understanding, seek out sources that might give them a better understanding? It sounds like you didn't do any of this, but just went with your feeling and as Gon pointed out in another thread, the files the balance team likes to play.

I have seen less than 10, maybe less than 5 of the cards that were buffed in Folrart since the errata. I'm not a grinder, but I play and watch enough to know what is going on in Folrart. When Angelspawn lambasted you guys for having a long history of ineffective erratas, I took it with a grain of salt, because I wasn't around as long as he was to remember.

Now I understand where he was coming from. Your inconsequential response to all of this and preoccupation with the tone of my question makes me think you guys will never get your act together.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby ForgotPassNotWorking » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:06 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:First off I just want to clarify: I am not trolling here or being sarcastic or a douch in any way. Decisions were made and the errata buffed a lot of cards. There has been a lot of negative feedback to these changes, that the balance team remains mute about. I'm wondering if it is possible to get some conversation going where the people in charge publicly address concerns people have, and describe what the decision making process was like, or what the reasoning behind the buffs was. This is very common in other games such as LoL where the employees are very vocal and interactive about game improvements.

What do you guys think?

Sounds great.


Anyways. Some of the changes are so minimal and irrelevant it makes one wonder why did they even bother or why didn't they go all the way to make the change worthwhile?
few examples:
Hammer Soldier
Folrart lady monk
Proposition
Elite Crest Knight
Lightning Archer

These are just messed up changes.
I like Alteil a lot! Alteil is awesome! HAHAHAHA
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Ethikx » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 am

Romdeau wrote:I think the ball was kinda dropped on Folfenac, his mark ability should only drain spheres if it activates on a living unit with more than 0HP.


That's the unit I am most concerned about, I see it as a blatant nerf. I never really thought of Folfenac as underpowered, made a wonderful early game in my assassin file. Biggest weakness would definitely be the 20 HP. Set up a field of Francis, A-Team and Folfenac, and Folfenac usually dies to grims or open skills. I partially understand the 'buff', as targeting Folfenac will result in the opponent losing a unit, but at the same time... you lose 2 sphere levels? That's a bit much, and makes Folfy unplayable in my opinion. This more or less forces you to kill the marked unit before Folfy-poo dies so you don't have to lose sphere levels, or only set the little devil when the opponent's field is empty.

Second question: Is this some extravagant, roundabout plan to make Magic Doll-sniper- viable? It saves you a turn using the 1sp action skill :?
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