Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:39 am

Icy, why have I never seen Proposition in Folrart? He's a 3SP Merciless Death. Did you guys not play test him enough?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Icyglare » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:48 am

Props aka Pimp Hands had a tough time firing off his action skill in the first place. Usually the best time to play Props was after Zu explosions but if the enemies left over can do 80 dmg then it can't do it. You have to plop down a tank but any tank or meatshield LV5 or below run the risk of being cemented. So you need a LV6 tank to be put down first and then Pimp Hands but back then, Joachim didn't exist for the longest time and Kafar has a really crumby open skill and is wasted since Right-Hand Shield Kafar Open affects only units that are already out.

With the New Auto, this should give people more options so they don't have to play a Zu file to play Pimp Hands but instead can use a lower level unit to take some hits while he's firing his action skill.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Aoi » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:01 am

Some people just don't own pimp hands, he is a 5* after all.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:03 am

Okay, but how come I still never see Pimpy in Folrart. For that matter, I have only seen about 5 cards from the errata in Folrart. What's going on? Are players too dumb to appreciate your errata?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Aoi » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:15 am

Only 5 cards?, I have seen Wassier, Noir, Folart Flying Calvery, Folart Shield Knight, Eagle Soldier, Spell Lancer, Mermaid Princess Emana, Cassandra, Blessing, Earth Dragon, Fire Dragon, Hammer Soldier, Liz, Herriat Spy, Herriat Mage, Herriat Broadsword, Light Herriat Fighter, Treasure Hunter. I personally have tried out a good number of cards including Spike shield soldier, Folfenac, Ex Lelein, Balzelda, Mermaid Spear, Mermaid Dancer, Mermaid Archer, Cudgel, Elite Crest Knight, Anti-Magic Swordsman.

Now are these consistently being used no, but they are around now.

Edit: Forgot I tried out Distrier and Delrare too, and Mermaid harpist sorta counts too
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Icyglare » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:18 am

The buffs this time are not DanDan buffs so unless people were already using it, it might be a while before we see those cards come out more. I know I've seen a few Folrart Cavalry Knights, Spike Shields, and LV2 Shield Knight. Blessing but not on any dragon rider. Ex Lelein (mainly because most assasins have low HP). I've seen more Dalos, Delrare, and Fire Dragons/Earth Dragons.

I can keep listing but remember, people's experiences on the files they face will be different than your fellow Iczer. The carbuncle nerfs weren't bad at all but carbuncle use have dropped significantly. Probably not because of errata but people's flavors have changed. I personally seem to have faced a lot of Solar Kingdom and Wyvern files.

Sidenote: Mermaid Spear, just kills Phoenix Chicks.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby angelspawns » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:04 am

Icyglare wrote:Orthos - Orthos still should be used mainly for cemetery removal but if there is no cards to remove then it will activate it's second effect, engaging an agi4 enemy and removing all attack debuffs (Don't play Orthos counting on this 2nd effect, play Orthos for his main goal).

Play for his main goal? The one that didn't see enough play because cem removal is just a situational advantagious tech, and he serves little purpose otherwise?.. I can't quite follow the thoughtprocess here. I do know this random engage Skill is so niche to trigger it's not going to be used more then before because of it. I will let the Data back me up on this logical conclusion. This buff will go down in Alteil history as insignificant. (improvement suggestions can be found in earlier post) Do you disagree?

Folrart Shield Knight - ...more DEF+HP than any LV2 unit out there ... wanted free revive and if we did, we probably would have reduced/removed it's HP+DEF...
You mention his stats for your argument but not from a neutral perspective. A neutral perspective is this: Lvl2s gets 100 statpoints to perform their role. 10 more HP means 10 less Atk/Agi/Rng somewhere else. It got 10Def where other units get 20Atk. Etc.
When you're noting FSF stats it's also noteworthy it already gotten 1 less statpoint penalty, just for having the points on HP and Def in SolarKingdom. Yet you don't see lvl2's attackers with 40Atk get a statpoint penalty "just because it has the highest Atk as Lvl2 in a Duchy of Crest tribe", right? Right. We call this a bias. Bias towards tanking strategies. This is a well known fact about the balanceteam you once again confirm here. I find it disheartening you then further refuse Skills or buffs of significant importance when such unit turns out to be in a dire need of one. Atleast not without contemplating more penalties on his HP. It's clear there's never been any real intend to buff it into a better meatshield. This "wouldn't be any different than any other free revive" is actually something people really like to see from a tank. There's not a whole lot choices of lvl2 free revives in Solars. (only LMA, who desperatly needs a buff aswell) The argument "Whether you play FSF, Messala, or any LV2, you are going to run the risk of Tidal." is a strange notion to make too. It's not an argument why it shouldn't get that grim immune buff, but the more reason why it should?

As for ExGarfath i well know his current uses. And it didn't get played. It was up to you, the errata team, to find out why and buff this unit accordingly. This buff didn't change anything for him and is basically a trap skill to waste 1SP on for killing random shades etc. I already made alot of arguments in this thread concerning him, and i would like to ask you to read this thread so i won't have to quote myself. I do however have expressed my concerns and still await for an appropiate response to justify this "buff" other then that the current errata team doesn't like the Def stat.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby GonFreeces31 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:53 am

angelspawns wrote:
Icyglare wrote:Orthos - Orthos still should be used mainly for cemetery removal but if there is no cards to remove then it will activate it's second effect, engaging an agi4 enemy and removing all attack debuffs (Don't play Orthos counting on this 2nd effect, play Orthos for his main goal).

Play for his main goal? The one that didn't see enough play because cem removal is just a situational advantagious tech, and he serves little purpose otherwise?.. I can't quite follow the thoughtprocess here. I do know this random engage Skill is so niche to trigger it's not going to be used more then before because of it. I will let the Data back me up on this logical conclusion. This buff will go down in Alteil history as insignificant. (improvement suggestions can be found in earlier post) Do you disagree?


Let's phrase it like this:
A) Is it a good thing or a bad thing to include cards in Refess that remove cards from opponent's graveyard?
B) Is it ever useful to do A?
C) If you said no to B, is there design space to create powerful interactions and combos based off cem effects (i.e., Orthos + Dub Rido)?
D) If you said no to C, what would be a powerful enough interaction to make Orthos worth using?
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby Romdeau » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:57 am

I take 1 day break from the forums and apparently I'm taking a respite from what is a heavily impled sexual assault (I recall you having a problem with this concept in gaming culture fargone) and this thread has continued.

A lot of what IcyGlare says is similar along our thought lines. I'd like to remind everyone that I represent a team and that I alone am not solely the one behind these changes. If you want direct explantions and reasons on changes that were not made by me, I will do my best to explain in their stead but don't expect me to know exact details. Orthos' change is not something I'm particularly excited about, nor am I sure it was a good one. Same with EX Garfath, but I think this case is a little better because it's a flat power buff-nothing was removed or nerfed in exchange for the action skill. For all intensive purposes, you can choose to ignore it and use it as you've continued to use him. I don't think he's in a good spot yet, but it's a start.

Icy pretty much nailed Folrart Shield Knight-if we gave him the free revive trait, we would've had to make him noticeably less tanky-which is kinda the whole point of the card (tanky level 2 that is solar kingdom). So instead of direct stat inflation, we decided that giving him a unique trait to help him do his job better would be a better approach. This change I was apart of and I agree with 100%

I'm not sure about proposition. The auto skill was Logress' idea and I agreed with it, but it's too early to say what his power level really is. He's still a super-niche card that's a 5 star, but at least now he's a tad more usable-before, he was just a laughing case of bad design.

And Callonia, I get it. You hate death touch and don't like how I introduced it to the game. Move along, please.
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Re: Request: Balance Team Defends Errata

Postby gadu » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:34 pm

Icyglare wrote:The buffs this time are not DanDan buffs


As Fargone would say: I am amused.

Icyglare plays devil's advocate like no other. 8-)
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