The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

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The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:16 pm

So its become pretty clear to me from testing that the primary way to get new cards is through treasure battles. Treasure battles offer higher rarity rewards and under the right circumstances can come pretty often, while getting gran takes either a long time or is very expensive and the probability of getting good cards in the lottery or packs is lower.

The problem is what those "right circumstances" are to get treasure battles. It seems treasure battles occurrences are directly linked to win streak. The higher your win streak, the higher the chance of a treasure battle. If your playing some one else who has a win streak that percentage climbs further. During the closed beta where I was 30-0 from about 15-0 on ward I was getting into a treasure battle pretty much every other fight, while people I talked to who had records of like 6-24 were telling me that got into all of one treasure battle the entire closed beta.

This system rewards winning which seems fine at face value, its an encouragement to succeed, but the longer the game exists the more the issue with this system becomes apparent. By running up large win streaks a player is proving they're already better then most people, and by giving them access to more cards through treasure battles your only further strengthening them, giving them more options for deck building. Conversely, players who are losing maybe are losing at first because they're getting the hang of the game, but by the time they do get the hang of things, those people they've been losing too have won tons of great cards and now can produce powerful strategies they as the losers do not have access to. In this manner the strong players became stronger and the weak players in a way became weaker. And with the current system there's really no way to break out of this, the strong players can only get stronger as they win more and more cards while the weak players can't get stronger at all since they almost never even get a chance at winning cards and when they finally do get a treasure battle they often lack the cards necessary for dealing with the top strategies. Its a pretty silly situation, to win you need specific cards, but to get specific cards you need to win. Yes strategy plays a big part too, its not all about the cards, but your fooling yourself if you think they don't have a big impact on things.

I understand that this is the system the Japanese have used and the game has had success in Japan but I still can't help feeling like its a flawed system that would be better off providing equal opportunities for new cards across the board and not favoring those who are already winning. I've already seen a lot of people I brought into this game quit because of this system, they feel discouraged and the current system isn't leaving them much hope for ever catching up with the players who already own lots of great cards and are running up one win streak after the next furthering their collections.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby Nai_Hime » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:07 pm

losers in the west whine more?
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby ReibuOrumai » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:31 pm

In the beta I was 3-13 with lawtia. Got into 4 treasure battles and lost them all. Now I'm 16-4 with falkow and I've been in one treasure battle and won. Sometimes you just have terrible luck. And besides, you still have to WIN the treasure battle so if you suck you still wont get the card.
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby Grain » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:27 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:The problem is what those "right circumstances" are to get treasure battles. It seems treasure battles occurrences are directly linked to win streak. The higher your win streak, the higher the chance of a treasure battle. If your playing some one else who has a win streak that percentage climbs further. During the closed beta where I was 30-0 from about 15-0 on ward I was getting into a treasure battle pretty much every other fight, while people I talked to who had records of like 6-24 were telling me that got into all of one treasure battle the entire closed beta.


This entire post was based on a personal speculation?
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby teasel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:41 pm

well today i got into 2 treasure battle in arow oh and funny enough i had a streak of 8 so if it's speculation i support his theory
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby Cyanide » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:56 pm

yeah, I'm sure I've read that it's more likely to be a treasure battle if you have win streaks. Personally I just think all treasure battles should be random.
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:12 pm

With out an official announcement or looking at the source code, yes I can only speculate, but I have played 70 plus games, and during this time every time I've had an extended win streak I've gotten into treasure battles incredibly frequently, every time I suffered a loss and had to start a streak all over my treasure battles became extremely infrequent (and if they did happen usually happened against some one else who had a significant streak). I've also talked to several other players with similar game totals and who've told me they found similar results. To discredit my findings that have significant backing to them just because I don't know for 100% sure is kind of silly in my opinion.
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby reydien » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:07 pm

I feel like the imbalance between the haves and have nots is currently a bit magnified due to the age of the game. The mechanics are there for everyone to eventually get many cards even without being able to win treasure battles or buy gran. The Daily Mirage Master gran (10-20 depending on your skill) combined with the weekly ranking gran (no word on how much the different rankers can expect, but it's something) will help turn the have nots into haves, eventually. Buying gran only speeds up the process, and because the game is so new, they are currently the only ones who have reached the collection level that allows for the upper-level (in cost, not ability) decks.

My plan for now is to just keep playing my daily MM (trying to get better at intermediate-4 for 15 gran), play a few games a day to see what the current strategies are (and slowly climb the levels), and wait for my collection to grow to where I can try out the deck ideas I've had. It kinda sucks cause I haven't gotten any [card=65]blitz soldiers[/card] which I think would be a nice boon to my deck, but I can still win games, even if only against people in the same position as me.
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby Nai_Hime » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:40 pm

Why should losers have the same chance of rewards as winners?

Just curious.
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Re: The rich get richer, poor get poorer?

Postby Awod » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:18 pm

So they aren't *always* losers who have nothing to look forward to. If your on a huge losing streak and suddenly you get a TB for a 3-star card. They can be like, 'OMGS YEAHS IT WASNT ALL FOR NOTHINGS!' provided they still need to win but if two 'losers' had the same chance of a TB compared to 2 'winners' the distribution of cards will be more balanced.
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