LeBeau is color intrusion

Everything that doesn't go anywhere else.

LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Chronomaster » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:15 pm

Alright, I've got the best reason as to why LeBeau needs a nerf soon.

Let's take a look at the colors. Every color has a focus of sorts. Refess, as we're finding out, is built around stalling and wearing out your opponent. Gowen deals ridiculous amounts of damage. Falkow is the control element, and has a lot of speed on its side. Lawtia is sort of an everyman color, but has a lot of regeneration and nighttime based effects.

Interesting. These colors actually match up pretty well to Magic's color (with the exception of Green, which appears partly in the base rules, its mana generating element). Much like Magic, as well, each color has a bit of the other colors in itself. Often times however, they're not as efficient (you won't see Red having protection from everything without White's help, for example). This is a key point of the color wheel in Magic.

How does this fly back to Alteil? Soul cards are technically colorless, since you're able to use them in any deck without consequence (Soul effects permitting). So, being rational about this, there shouldn't be abilities that exceed the potential of the color they're based off of (indeed, there is a lot of damage soul effects in the base set. Nothing against Gowen's Fire Tornado though).

This is where the game is broken. LeBeau's soul effect exceeds the potential of any card in the base set, with no drawback to mention (aside from it activating too early, or with few units in the grave). Refess, previously the king with its Raise Shield Grimore, can't even scratch the raw potential of a card which can yield 60+ DF under the right conditions without even costing you your play for the turn. Since this effect is also colorless, match it up with Lawtia and suddenly you have the much reviled Zombie Lord combo.

We have discussed that there are approaches to break this momentum. Unfortunately, I'm here to break further bad news. Each of these maneuvers breaks your momentum. Look back at my unit control thread. The two cards which can absolutely break Zombie fort's hold are both in Lawtia (again, one colorless because it is a soul). Assassin costs you your own unit to take out another. Merciless Death costs 6 SP to use. Playing Lawtia to Lawtia, anyone can call the Merciless Death coming up and backlash it if necessary. Assassin further fails if you have no units out on the field (which is more than likely if you need to blow units to activate it) and of course costs you momentum which you are probably seriously hurting for. Two other choice cards are Expert Sorceror (Blue's answer, doesn't kill momentum as bad and can be sped up enough to hit), and Dispel. Everything else is pretty ineffective since Zombie Lord can come back from the hit.

Yeah, this issue has been beaten to death. I just figured I'd give my take on it, so if you think I'm onto something, feel free to add, but if you feel like I'm ON SOMETHING, feel free to berate me. I already know Logress is going to get on my case (just kidding, the only way he's not on my case is if he doesn't look into this issue). Also, final disclaimer, these thoughts are on pure speculation and analysis just like everything else in this world oh boy what are we coming to etc etc.
BEATMANIUH
User avatar
Chronomaster
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:13 pm

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Grain » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:22 pm

I believe that several weeks ago, a mod may have said something about Japan doing balance tests with LeBeau. Other than that, I've read nothing.

Unless Japan says otherwise, it's working as intended and will continue to.
User avatar
Grain
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Savin877 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:10 pm

I agree with what you say, but as of right now its not going to change. Kinda sucks, maybe once we get more card sets released we can get some diversity and new strategies going on. Until then though, nothing is gonna happen.
User avatar
Savin877
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: The location between space and time

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Hakuro de Killer » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:57 am

First comes nerfing errata, then comes banlists. I do wager, however, that there is a fortune of stuff that can kill LeBeau in the first expansion making it so nerfing isn't required. If I have to deal with another anti-LeBeau thread, I am going to kick someone's ****.

WE GET IT, YOU HATE LEBEAU. Please keep it all in one thread, not posting a million threads on why LeBeau is cheap, it is ungodly irritating. There's already a thread called "If you hate LeBeau...". Please keep all of your anti-LeBeau ranting there. I honestly don't think a million different threads about the exact same topic does anything any good.
User avatar
Hakuro de Killer
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:55 am
Location: Bangor, Maine

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Chronomaster » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:32 pm

Hakuro de Killer wrote:If I have to deal with another anti-LeBeau thread, I am going to kick someone's butt. [...] Please keep it all in one thread, not posting a million threads on why LeBeau is cheap, it is ungodly irritating. There's already a thread called "If you hate LeBeau...". Please keep all of your anti-LeBeau ranting there. I honestly don't think a million different threads about the exact same topic does anything any good.

Oh no crowd control. Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED.

The reason LeBeau gets so much hate and outcry in the mass amount of threads there are is because it is clearly hated, and creating multiple threads is particular to voice in that it appears to be a louder issue. If we all were shuffled into one thread and left there to cry foul, anyone could easily ignore us and call it groupthink. :<

EDIT: This is also my only thread specific to the issue. Don't pull that one on me.
Last edited by Chronomaster on Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
BEATMANIUH
User avatar
Chronomaster
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:13 pm

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Gigantorus » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:39 pm

LeBeau is far from the powerful card he is when you get at higher levels and more cards are in play. He is extremely powerful at starter deck level though.
Gigantorus
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:39 am

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Hakuro de Killer » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:49 pm

Chronomaster wrote:
Hakuro de Killer wrote:If I have to deal with another anti-LeBeau thread, I am going to kick someone's butt. [...] Please keep it all in one thread, not posting a million threads on why LeBeau is cheap, it is ungodly irritating. There's already a thread called "If you hate LeBeau...". Please keep all of your anti-LeBeau ranting there. I honestly don't think a million different threads about the exact same topic does anything any good.

Oh no crowd control. Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED.

The reason LeBeau gets so much hate and outcry in the mass amount of threads there are is because it is clearly hated, and creating multiple threads is particular to voice in that it appears to be a louder issue. If we all were shuffled into one thread and left there to cry foul, anyone could easily ignore us and call it groupthink. :<

EDIT: This is also my only thread specific to the issue. Don't pull that one on me.


But seriously, if I do see another anti-LeBeau thread, I seriously will take some kind of action. Also, as I have stated before in the other threads, LeBeau can be easily countered if you're intelligent to build a deck with cards that can counter it. I suggest trying every one of the aforementioned strategies listed in the other 999,999 topics on the issue and get back to me after you have tried ALL of them.
User avatar
Hakuro de Killer
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:55 am
Location: Bangor, Maine

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Grain » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:28 pm

Hakuro de Killer wrote: LeBeau can be easily countered if you're intelligent to build a deck with cards that can counter it.


Coming from a Refess with 2 Dispels.

Can it be countered? Yes.

Easily? Depends on the situation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
User avatar
Grain
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Hakuro de Killer » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:33 pm

Grain wrote:
Hakuro de Killer wrote: LeBeau can be easily countered if you're intelligent to build a deck with cards that can counter it.


Coming from a Refess with 2 Dispels.

Can it be countered? Yes.

Easily? Depends on the situation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.


I run Lawtia and trust me, Lycanthrope Lilith, Elite Crest Knight, and Flesh Recycle can all kill LeBeau with ease, I just happen to have the added edge of a Proposition in my deck.

Falkow with their returning cards makes it cake for them.

Gowen has crazy direct damage SS along with Salamander's opening skill and a munch more. It's not just Fire Tornado (which, more often than not, actually DOES hit my LeBeaued units every single time.).

Along with Dispel, Refess also has cards with piercing.
User avatar
Hakuro de Killer
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:55 am
Location: Bangor, Maine

Re: LeBeau is color intrusion

Postby Grain » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:19 am

Hakuro de Killer wrote:Along with Dispel, Refess also has cards with piercing.


Refess has a single card which can pierce, Light Spearwoman.

Dispel is a 3 star card.
User avatar
Grain
 
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Next

Return to Alteil General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests

cron