MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby teasel » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:24 am

personaly i'm annoyed more at the fact that it's a limited deal,it will never happen since i'm playing without buying gran but let's say i stop buying cards from the lottery and decide to save gran for the EX packs... oh wait i can't anymore because it's a oneshot deal! there is also the fact that the card skills got changed all to DF hate skills which makes no sense to me (beside the "see how powerfull lebeau is? you hate it? buy an ex pack!) at all :/
also regarding magic while it's true that magic booster holds more cards it's also true that a deck in magic is made of 60 cards (and you want to have 4 copy of particular cards,while here you only need between 2-3 and in some cases like grimoire even 1 suffice)
Last edited by teasel on Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Phades » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:15 pm

teasel wrote:also regarding magic while it's true that magic booster holds more cards it's also true that a deck in magic is made of 60 cards (and you want to have 4 copy of particular cards,while here you only need between 2-3 and in some cases like grimoire even 1 suffice)

Eliminate at least 20 cards out of that figure for basic land. Then on top of that, there are restricted cards to limit use to 1 per deck in addition to not always wanting 4 of the same card, due to redundant effects or wishing to have a higher % chance of drawing a better variety of cards to deal with more situations. Many high tuned decks i saw, years ago when i played magic, typically did not have 4 cards per type standard. They would have had 1 or 2 types of cards repeated 4 times for effect, but the rest was tuned to include 2-3 of other useful cards and fit in other cards that could only have one of within the deck. Hell, i have even seen deck constructions to include more land than the "standard" 20, reducing those other numbers as well. So to be fair really, you should compare the magic deck of 40 versus a cardfile, but even then it wouldn't be completely accurate.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby EvilGenius » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:53 pm

It's not really worth comparing Alteil to Magic at all. Alteil does not involve random deck shuffling. You don't draw cards. Imagine playing Magic where you have your entire deck in your hand. While it's a fun variant, it's not Magic. So stop comparing the two.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby arfort » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:20 pm

I agree with Alteil employees. Honestly, I was extremely surprised when I received free grans for the first time. I've bought 30$ worth of grans after that since you start to get the best money to gran ratio at that amount. I figure that 30$ + the free continuous stuff will keep me going for a very long time. 30$ for a game is dirt cheap. A box of magic with it's 36 boosters (and if you're lucky, about 20 trade able/playable cards and 500 craps that aren't worth their cost in ink that you can't recycle or do anything with) will cost you around 100$ usually if you purchase in stores. Not to mention they do 4 expansions per years these last few years and your card rotate out of the various tournament formats every year.
Normal TCGs's cost (printer, artists, employees, etc) isn't any higher than a computerized card game. Royalties still cost as much, you still have staff and instead of having to pay the printer you have to pay bandwidth, equipment, extra staff to deal with the equipment.
The EX pack's mostly good to replace dispel in everyone's deck with something else to deal with the KM. I know with the Gowen card you can get away with having just one copy of him since he's not good at all other than for his Open ability and the angel seems to have a lack of synergy with her own abilities. I wouldn't play her honestly.
My concern is mostly for future promo or EX cards if they turn out to be really good cards of their own, not just a silver bullet against KM. Please leave a way to acquire them somehow, if they're playable in any constructed tournament. I don't know if you guys will rotate old set out of constructed tournament like legend of the five rings or MTG does. If you don't then there has to be a way for new players to get the same cards older players use. Cost can be increased I guess, or the EX pact removed and replaced by an EX lottery card system or "out of print" card lottery system. Lots of options. I know L5R once made a promo that was so good that they had to reprint the card in their next expansion.
Anyway, I hope people support Alteil some. Think of it as a donation or something. Use the cashier. It doesn't bite.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby LegendsEnd » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:13 pm

arfort wrote:I agree with Alteil employees. Honestly, I was extremely surprised when I received free grans for the first time. I've bought 30$ worth of grans after that since you start to get the best money to gran ratio at that amount. I figure that 30$ + the free continuous stuff will keep me going for a very long time. 30$ for a game is dirt cheap. A box of magic with it's 36 boosters (and if you're lucky, about 20 trade able/playable cards and 500 craps that aren't worth their cost in ink that you can't recycle or do anything with) will cost you around 100$ usually if you purchase in stores. Not to mention they do 4 expansions per years these last few years and your card rotate out of the various tournament formats every year.
Normal TCGs's cost (printer, artists, employees, etc) isn't any higher than a computerized card game. Royalties still cost as much, you still have staff and instead of having to pay the printer you have to pay bandwidth, equipment, extra staff to deal with the equipment.
The EX pack's mostly good to replace dispel in everyone's deck with something else to deal with the KM. I know with the Gowen card you can get away with having just one copy of him since he's not good at all other than for his Open ability and the angel seems to have a lack of synergy with her own abilities. I wouldn't play her honestly.
My concern is mostly for future promo or EX cards if they turn out to be really good cards of their own, not just a silver bullet against KM. Please leave a way to acquire them somehow, if they're playable in any constructed tournament. I don't know if you guys will rotate old set out of constructed tournament like legend of the five rings or MTG does. If you don't then there has to be a way for new players to get the same cards older players use. Cost can be increased I guess, or the EX pact removed and replaced by an EX lottery card system or "out of print" card lottery system. Lots of options. I know L5R once made a promo that was so good that they had to reprint the card in their next expansion.
Anyway, I hope people support Alteil some. Think of it as a donation or something. Use the cashier. It doesn't bite.


I think the main concern here is this becoming the standard price and a regular ordeal. Do the cards warrant $30 of value? Is the player-base of Alteil there? I'm sure we have all noticed, Alteil has a small player-base and this isn't helping to attract or keep players. For $39.99 people can pick up Orange Box with HL2/Ep1/Ep2/Portal/TF2/CS:S. Are you prepared to make multiple $30 'donations' a year? Yes I know it's a choice, but it's a painful choice. On one hand, I want to play. On the other hand, I can't compete, so I play MM instead of the game itself all day.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Ekin » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:59 pm

So this is what I'm hearing from a lot of people:

"This is supposed to be a free game, but now I need to buy cards in order to compete."

Alteil.com has never said you can be super competitive without paying money. You've played for free. If you've made it through Crest, you've probably got dozens upon dozens of games under your belt. If you can afford to, what's wrong with buying a few cards? This company has already given you tons of fun and entertainment. You haven't spent a dime, while your presence on the server has probably cost them something (even if that's miniscule). Furthermore, just to provide you with this game you've been playing free of charge, they have to pay their staff, pay for servers, bandwith, etc etc etc. It's not a cheap operation. If you've enjoyed the game, think of paying for cards as a donation like arfort suggested.

On the subject of the EX card price, you don't have to buy them if you think they're too expensive. Buying them does not instantly mean you win. You don't instantly lose when you don't buy them. Like anything on the open market, if you find it too expensive, exercise your right as a consumer and choose not to purchase.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby arfort » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:03 pm

I didn't spend 30$ on the Ex packs. Just bought 30$ of Gran to get the most grans per dollars spent.
And yeah, the game needs to build a much bigger player base than what it currently has to survive. So spread the word. To people that have a credit card and/or paypal account linked to their bank account. Seriously, it's a great game. Maybe they could set up some kind of referral system where somebody would receive a special avatar or something shiny when an account that they referred use the cashier. I'm sure it's something they'd like on the Japanese site if they don't already have something like that too.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby DanTheTimid » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:43 pm

teasel wrote:personaly i'm annoyed more at the fact that it's a limited deal...


Same here, I'm not happy with the price tag which I feel is excessive but I could live with it alot easier if I knew that if I saved up enough gran or some day got a big bonus on a paycheck I could at least theoretically eventually get those cards. That's kind of what keeps me going even though many 4 and 5 star cards I'll probably never see with out throwing down alot of cash or playing for a long long time. However in this case I can't wait for however many months or years it might take to get that big paycheck bonus or save up enough gran, if I don't get them in the next 2 months I can never get them. That doesn't leave me with hope for the future, rather that knowledge leaves me with a horrible feeling of disgust and despair.

If they have to be limited, how about they simply aren't always available but for example, are made available twice a year, for 2 months at a time, every year. In this manner I might miss out on them now but I know in the future theres going to be more chances to get them again.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Kyrie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:53 pm

Nai_Hime wrote:400gran = what $3.5 = £1.25 = Price of a 500ml bottle of Coke in the UK. Spending £20 ($40) a month on a game is nothing. It seems a recuring theme around forums that Americans are just darn tight - or poor. Not sure which.


£20 a month on online game fees is NOTHING?! And I thought Warhammer Online was overpriced at £10. It's not just Americans that can't afford paying that kind of money on a regular basis...
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Detrian » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:43 pm

Relax guys, japanese Alteil has an EX card lottery at a 100 gran a pop so the cards are always available. At random, but available.

Oh, and by the way...

Ekin wrote:So this is what I'm hearing from a lot of people:

"This is supposed to be a free game, but now I need to buy cards in order to compete."

Alteil.com has never said you can be super competitive without paying money.


For a game that was described by the GMs themselves, and I quote "is really free, it's not BS free" that's a pretty bold statement on your part.

Edit:

Logress wrote:Oh, and where did anyone get the idea there were no guaranteed rares or very rares in our packs and boxes? When was the last time you got a 5-pack with all rarity 1's? Never, because it's impossible. There are guaranteed higher-rarity cards in both, it's hard to compare to Magic exactly since we don't have anything at the 15-card level.


One 5 star per BOX is not really enticing, specially when we have to search for that info on mysterious japanese sites instead of coming out clear with it.
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