MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby ammms » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Detrian wrote:prices are actually lifted straight off the japanese Alteil[/b] (which curiously enough not only get their gran cheaper but also get the card lottery at 10G a pop instead of 30, have 3 minigames to make gran off and get 4 cards per EX booster.)


There's only one game in Japanese version that reward you gran, i.e. the Mirage Master. The other two are games that can be played with Alteil cards but only reward you FM per match.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby ammms » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:21 pm

lupos wrote:B) the 10 gran card lottery doesn't give out as good of cards, percentage wise, as the 30. And I believe they have a 30 as well as a few others.


I don't know what you are talking about, the Japanese Alteil only has a random card lottery of 10 Gran per card. As of the percentage of drawing higher rarity card, I know they can adjust it, like there's a special week that you are more likely to get 4 or 5 star cards from the card lottery. But I have no idea about how it's done here, we don't have any figures anyway (we used to do stat. on card drawing in the Japanese Alteil, using 990G for 99 card lottery, repeat several times to check the outcome)

lupos wrote:D) the thing you have to consider is, at the end of the day, this has to make money. And we want people to buy things, but if there is no benefit to buying things, then why would anyone ever buy? Yes, it's hard to get the good stuff for free, and you most likely won't be able to get 3 of each of them, but, it's still fun to play. Heck, I can have any card I want and I still don't have an amazing win record. But I enjoy playing. It's fun. You can play a very fun game, imho, for free. We don't even have any on site ads yet, which they have tons of in japan. So what exactly do we get buy supporting free players?


I agree with the first part. This has to make money or else everyone will not be able to play the game in future. I do think the advertisement part is exaggerated, I guess it's something like less than 300 * 200 pixel. Though I welcome the idea of adding advertisement to our page. It definitely helps to increase the profit.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby lupos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:55 pm

Hey all, can't possibly go through and direct answer everyone, and many of you have helped answer for us anyway. Thanks for that. But I wanted to pop in and further my opinion. We are new. We are doing our best to make this work and it's very much a work in progress. But the one thing you can always take solice in is the fact that, all the card skills are virtual. They can all be changed if necesary. Nothing you buy will ever be made obsolete, unlike some other previously mentioned games.

As for the ads on the site thing, we do intend to get some on here eventaully, but we have to have enough traffic to warrant it to potential advertisers. Also, I've never said "not bs free" myself but i believe it's a fairly accurate though possibly missleading. Anyone I talk to at a con I tell them, it's a card game. You buy more cards, you will probably have an edge. But, since there is no trading or secondary market, luck can be on the side of those who spend very little, like MM gran only.

Things are rocky now, and I apreciate those of you who are displeased at the moment sticken it our for a bit. Things may not be perfect now but i still think they are pretty good and they are only going to get better.

Aside from a few little registration issues logress and I will be spenidng the 3 days we have next week before heading to gencon, making as lengthy and detailed a report as possible to convinnce the guys in japan to change the arena structure so folrart isn't so barren. Heck, even I don't want to go in there most of the time. You people make me look bad as an all powerful GM ;)

Anyway, thanks again for the input and for those of you being patient and understanidng we really apreciate it. Off to bed for another fun filled day of lieing to people to get them to not spend money :twisted: j/k

Night all.

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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Ekin » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:37 am

Detrian wrote:
Ekin wrote:So this is what I'm hearing from a lot of people:

"This is supposed to be a free game, but now I need to buy cards in order to compete."

Alteil.com has never said you can be super competitive without paying money.


For a game that was described by the GMs themselves, and I quote "is really free, it's not BS free" that's a pretty bold statement on your part.


Find me the quote where they've said you can be competitive from here until the future without ever spending a dime, and we'll talk about how bold my statement is.

The game IS really free. But being free to play and being completely competitive for free are two different things. Only one has been promised.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby GunCastor » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:03 am

The EX pack cards aren't even that game-breaking, I don't even see what the big deal is. It's really not worth this much complaining about and there's really no need to be rude towards the GMs or the people controlling the games in Japan. Obviously, the people who are actually going to spend money will be getting extra perks then the people who play for free. It works that way in any online game that lets people play for free, they might offer equipment that adds bonus stats and aesthetics. But this is the internet and it works like "Give me, give me, give me everything for free! If not, I hate you!" I was hoping it wouldn't happen here but in the end, I was not even surprised. Merely disappointed.

Do you even truly know what getting more cards means? It means that you have an extra option to play in your deck, it doesn't always mean that it is the best one. For those who don't use the cashier and are upset over this, how much have you looked at your cards? Were you careful in selecting your level up cards? If you spent a little money and hoping to pull those level 1's from other colors, did you spend smartly for a starter to make sure you get those level 1's instead? If I can get-by with a slightly tweaked Refess deck, others can do better with supposedly stronger clans. Are you really missing out on that much without these EX packs? My opinion is no.

The fact that some people are buying them shows that they are not ridiculous in price. They are in decks out there and this might reduce the appearance of Killing Machine by at least a little. So in the end, it does have at least a little of a positive effect. Adding more cards in the game is always good in my opinon, even if only a few people gets them. As long as the cards aren't game-shattering anyways, and the cards in the EX packs aren't like that.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby LegendsEnd » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:25 pm

GunCastor wrote:The EX pack cards aren't even that game-breaking, I don't even see what the big deal is. It's really not worth this much complaining about and there's really no need to be rude towards the GMs or the people controlling the games in Japan. Obviously, the people who are actually going to spend money will be getting extra perks then the people who play for free. It works that way in any online game that lets people play for free, they might offer equipment that adds bonus stats and aesthetics. But this is the internet and it works like "Give me, give me, give me everything for free! If not, I hate you!" I was hoping it wouldn't happen here but in the end, I was not even surprised. Merely disappointed.

Do you even truly know what getting more cards means? It means that you have an extra option to play in your deck, it doesn't always mean that it is the best one. For those who don't use the cashier and are upset over this, how much have you looked at your cards? Were you careful in selecting your level up cards? If you spent a little money and hoping to pull those level 1's from other colors, did you spend smartly for a starter to make sure you get those level 1's instead? If I can get-by with a slightly tweaked Refess deck, others can do better with supposedly stronger clans. Are you really missing out on that much without these EX packs? My opinion is no.

The fact that some people are buying them shows that they are not ridiculous in price. They are in decks out there and this might reduce the appearance of Killing Machine by at least a little. So in the end, it does have at least a little of a positive effect. Adding more cards in the game is always good in my opinon, even if only a few people gets them. As long as the cards aren't game-shattering anyways, and the cards in the EX packs aren't like that.


I'm sorry but I find the entirety of what you said offending. The first two paragraphs miss the point entirely; the current discussion is on the cards being overpriced.

"The fact that some people are buying them shows that they are not ridiculous in price."

This shows nothing. If you're telling me gas prices are cheap, you are not the average Joe Alteil needs to make customers out of. People buy overpriced items, but they can also be displeased about it.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby Detrian » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:27 pm

GunCastor wrote:The fact that some people are buying them shows that they are not ridiculous in price. They are in decks out there and this might reduce the appearance of Killing Machine by at least a little. So in the end, it does have at least a little of a positive effect.


You missed the part where overpowering Lebeau and then bringing in the also modified EX cards was planned from the start and that japanese EX packs have 4 cards for the same price we are getting our packs.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby GunCastor » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:28 pm

@LegendsEnd

The first paragraph is about justifying the existance of the EX packs. The second paragraph describes what the EX packs essentially are, getting more cards. They are exclusive cards but in the end, it's still just getting more cards. I personally don't think you need to spend money to be competitive, that's what I was trying to get at.

Even I agree that they are a bit over-priced but you can't compare gas to cards in Alteil. Gas is needed for people to go places such as work, school, and other personal reasons. There is no possible way for cards in an online game to be a necessity. And I never said that people can't be displeased about over-priced products, I complain about gas prices all the time IRL.

I have a negative view on the internet in general, can you blame me? Most who put things out for freely such as translation teams, official or fan-translation, are taken for granted and are treated rudely when they don't do absolutely everything people want. I find this offensive even though I'm not on any of those teams and their rotten attitudes really bug me. They're the ones I hope that I do offend and I freely admit that. You have the right to criticize me for being offensive though, just as I have the right to express my opinions as well. Besides, what is it that I said that that offends you exactly?

@ Detrian

I find the over-powering of Lebeau and modified release of EX Packs being planned to be highly questionable. The 4 cards in there packs compared to 3 isn't fair either but I wouldn't make this big a deal out of another common card.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby LegendsEnd » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:00 pm

GunCastor wrote:@LegendsEnd
what is it that I said that that offends you exactly?


"It's really not worth this much complaining about and there's really no need to be rude towards the GMs or the people controlling the games in Japan."

I'm not trying to be "rude". Clearly many people share my opinion, we all want Alteil to be the best it can be and simply writing off our opinions as 'being rude' is insulting.

"Obviously, the people who are actually going to spend money will be getting extra perks then the people who play for free."

This is just condescending, no need to state what everyone knows.

"But this is the internet and it works like "Give me, give me, give me everything for free! If not, I hate you!""

None of us have said those exact words, yet you have just tried to lump everyone into one category.

"I was hoping it wouldn't happen here but in the end, I was not even surprised. Merely disappointed."

Again, you are creating a false image of anyone who doesn't support the pricing.

Do you even truly know what getting more cards means? It means that you have an extra option to play in your deck, it doesn't always mean that it is the best one. For those who don't use the cashier and are upset over this, how much have you looked at your cards? Were you careful in selecting your level up cards? If you spent a little money and hoping to pull those level 1's from other colors, did you spend smartly for a starter to make sure you get those level 1's instead?

Good ideas, but we're talking about the EX card pricing. No need to give us advice on how to spend money.

"If I can get-by with a slightly tweaked Refess deck, others can do better with supposedly stronger clans. Are you really missing out on that much without these EX packs? My opinion is no."

We are missing out on the EX cards. People like having the option of using the cards, I'm sure plenty of TCG players have made decks with inferior cards just for fun. Not everyone plays to win, making the cards more expensive to get is depriving people of a possible source for more entertainment.

"The fact that some people are buying them shows that they are not ridiculous in price."
"There is no possible way for cards in an online game to be a necessity."

I'm not saying Alteil cards are a necessity to earn a living. My simple point is that they're overpriced and people are buying them. You stated that since people are buying them, they are not overpriced. People buy a ton of overpriced merchandise; souvenirs, antiques, nostalgic items, etc. People add value to things differently for various reasons, like sentimental value. They know it is overpriced, they aren't happy about it, but they will buy it.
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Re: MOST SERIOUS RANT ever: EX cards !!!!!

Postby GunCastor » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:29 pm

There must have been some miscommunication because I do not mean to include everyone who disapproves the pricing as being rude. I myself agreed that the cards are over-priced. What I'm really talking are the people such as the topic creator and one such other poster that called out one of the GMs as liar and things of that nature. It's really obnoxious and this mood seems to be spreading. The fact that people have to purposely make topics on the bright side is evidence of this. My apologies for not being more clear. My problem is for them and them alone, not for people who are just merely pointing out that they feel the cards are over-priced.

For a thing of entertainment, people would not feel the need to purchase them if they were ridiculously over-priced and yes, I also used "ridiculously" in my last post. I never did say that everyone who bought it liked the price. But it must be worth it somehow if they bought it or else why do so?
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