Game suggestions

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Game suggestions

Postby ANIMEniac » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:15 pm

I'm sure many of you have read much about the game through the many rants that have been sprouting here and there. As players of a young growing community, I'm sure many have their opinions of the game and opinions about current practices.

I am a Game Design major, so I really like to look at how games are ran and managed, especially MMO types. I am also an old CCG/TCG player (coming from Pokemon to VS, Spoils, and Naruto). I love the mechanics of this game. It is a simple game, yet has complex strategies and planning involved. The game is still very young to the masses, and I know everyone is working hard to promote this game and spread the word. We've had a great influx of players come for the tournament (few hundred participants). But look at the arena area now, it's difficult to find players unless you go to the lvl 1-9 area.

My main concern is scaling the discrepancy between free players and those who can pay to play. As of now, many of the free players come very casually...very very casually after a short period. Those who want to keep playing in the upper arena have already realized that they need boosters to improve and advance further. Let's face it, those who stick to starters will continually get trampled TRYING to earn anything (treasure battles and rankings). Soon they will stop playing altogether, maybe just play Mirage until they can get a few more cards (after about 2 weeks), then maybe, just maybe play a little more.

Solution:
You already have items in place for "buyers" to gain more exp and even treasure battles (does anyone really prefer better chances than to get actually cards?). They can also gain packs very easily. Free players need to work very very hard just to gain anything, which leaves them frustrated and lose interest. I've mentioned before, playing is only part of a CCGs appeal. People like to collect and build. I'm sure many would agree, the possibility of using FM for some boosters would be a great touch.

Next suggestion is just a nice gimmick idea. Right now, I don't think there is much reward for streaks? Correct me if I'm wrong. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get a card as a reward for long streaks? The longer the streak before you lose it, the better the card will be. Just a small idea from another online CCG i used to play.

I know this was the very first one, but I have to voice something about the tournament system. First off, it was a great event. I loved the chance to see all the cards and try them out (both competitively and for amusement). My concern stems from the system favoring those who have time over those who have skill. In the tournament, it was easy to just rack up wins (high influx of new players). Given, that may be b/c many were just new people trying new things and it was free and easy to join. I worry that someone able to put in way more hours will outdo a person with great skill just from sheer number of wins. I can be 30 and 5 (30 stars at 6:1 ratio after 35 games) but still lose to someone at 50 and 24 (31 star and near 2:1 ratio after 74 games). Could we get more information about this system?

Thats all I have to say for now. I hope more will address their concerns (since there is no idea and suggestion forum) about things they would like to see and change (please nothing about game/card balance stuff, thats a whole other monster). The market here is different than Japan: different tastes and play styles. I want to see this game grow even more and become a great community as well.
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Romdeau » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:25 pm

It's been tossed around (not sure if it's true or not) that the longer your streak is, the higher chances you'll have of a entering a match for treasure. That's decent, and I think you might be pushing it by saying you want that AND fm available boosters. I'd argue for one or the other-obviously the boosters would be a smarter choice.
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby shyster » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:41 pm

Pfff Pokemon, youngun' :D

Anyways, a decent amount of what you have just said, I have already said at some point today just in different places. And not to take credit because others have been saying it long before I even started to.

The biggest issue we will see with this game, and probably the one that will decide life or death, is gran vs FM for buying cards. If people cannot get cards with FM casual players will become frustrated and leave; we have already seen that and continue to with folart.

If the company insists on making people pay to play, I personally would rather play chaotic, which allows play both online and in a physical form. The positive about this game is that it allows people to get gran for free, but it is too slow and in too short of supply, to the point that it is not even remotely practical.

Another issue is the randomness, or "luck" factor. People who have good luck drawing four and five star cards on a small amount of packs and people who can barely draw a three star on an entire box worth of packs. There is too much inconsistancy and unfairness. Add onto that the fact that nothing can be traded, so if you do end up drawing a badass five star in a color you do not have, you are doomed. <----And to cut off anybody who says you can just recycle it for two packs instead, this is the same person who bought a whole box and only got two three star cards aside from the one five star.

More issues would include the fact that there is no division between people who buy gran and those who do not. This in turn makes the division that much bigger as people who were willing to drop $100 on this game will basically guarentee victory against people who are unwilling or unable to spend any real world money.

To losely quote the Japanese guy who created this game, "Think of a way to make the Iczers smile and the rest will fall into place." Well the majority of us are not smiling, far from it we are frowning. Frowning because a game that should be fun and enjoyable discriminates against us to such a point.

Oh and on your issue of getting a card for having a long streak, that is just even more unfair. This guy is getting treasure battles left and right and now he gets a free card if/when he streak ends? I think not. By the way after about 5 wins in a row every battle is pretty much a treasure battle.

I think that will be enough from me for now, I am tired...
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby slashzero » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:39 pm

I'd like to point out that even with long streaks over 5 battles you'll only see a treasure battle about half the time, and most of the time it's when you're facing someone else with a decent winning streak as well. And then it's usually a low-star card... or worse, a card in the starter set. The only time I came up for a 3 star card was when I had nearly ten wins and that was just one battle. Yet I have heard my friend came up against a level 2 dueler in a battle for Black Cat/Fellana... so there is some luck in there. However I think you have far better opportunities for getting decent or rare cards when leveling up.

I think a solid solution for the current situation would be to make those EXP items buyable with a decent amount of FM, which would both increase the frequency players get cards and also increase the number of players in Folrart Arena, which kills two birds with one stone. Anyone regularly visiting Folrart knows there's just a lack of interest in the place since the only people you run into are the same dozen or so committed duelers... who honestly are very hard to beat. (I've always won by a decent amount of luck in where my attacks land or who goes first.) This could get more people interested in playing once they get to Folrart (Typical player: "Woo, I made it to level 10! Wait, you're saying I don't get a card on every levelup anymore? And woah, what, these guys all have hax decks! **** this!") since the newness factor of the game won't have worn off yet and it will also augment the number of lower-level people in Folrart at the same time to give the match-making algorithm something to work with.

I know in Japan (at least when we stole their tutorial images) Crest is limited to level 19 and below, but honestly it's easier to get cards there (10 gran lottery and all, plus the second mini-game) so they can drag the lower levels out a bit.
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Logress » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:00 pm

It does seem to be true that the game gives you a higher chance of getting a treasure battle. Actually, recycling treasure battle cards seems to be primary way free players are earning Gran right now. Also, the tournament system also supports a win % tournament with a minimum number of battles, so you play your minimum number, and then you decide if you want to risk more battles to get a higher %, depending on how you've done.
And, it seems like no one on the forums believes me, but right now 70% of our top players don't pay. We'll see if it stays that way, but it's been consistent so far since we've started.
"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine." -Paper
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby ANIMEniac » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:27 pm

I apologize if it seemed I am taking credit. I'm pretty sure many of the comments have been spreading around the board here and there. It was just an idea to try to get most of the ideas and opinions into one area.

Thanks for informing me about the treasure battles and streak correlations. I did not have a clear idea about that mechanic in the game, so then i would have to agree we wouldn't need the streak prize. I always thought the treasure were complete random occurrences across the board.

I can also relate to shyster about the rarity of the packs. I myself bought 2 boxes. My 2 five stars ended up being the same one, Death. And funny thing is, i wanted to try Gowen splash with dryad in my deck...no dryads. I had to buy a starter to get some.

@Logress
Thanks for the response. I can't wait to see the tournaments 100% implemented. Will players be able to set up their own tournaments? Also, I'm surprised to hear that statistic about players not buying. Are the majority of these players from the alpha/beta times? Were they able to keep some Gran or cards from the time they began? I started a few weeks ago, and did not even know I could earn Gran through Mirage until someone told me a few days later.
All I have to say is we may have to wait and see how the standing will hold out. It may work now b/c of the small card library (since most cards you need and what others have are form starters). From the tournament, we quickly learn the power the rares have over momentum in game (even a single one as an SS can be overwhelming). Let's not forget about how those who don't pay will deal with future releases.
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Grain » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:55 pm

DanTheTimid is the one who came up with the treasure battle idea.

I've viewed every single thread that's ever been posted on this forum.

I have no red bubbles.
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Illyasviel » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:42 am

I have a suggestion. Gran for battles! Basically like Mirage Master, your first game every day gives you Gran instead of FM. Won't be a huge boost, but it might be just enough to both get people to play more often, and to actually be able to afford to buy things! Even if you lose, you'll get 10 Gran you wouldn't have otherwise, and if you win, you'll get a little more. Or if you defeat a higher level player, you'll get a better amount.

Because I think we can all agree, two of the various problems this game has right now is things are too expensive, and not enough people are playing. This could help both of those. So, opinions?
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Grain » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:18 pm

Illyasviel wrote:I have a suggestion. Gran for battles! Basically like Mirage Master, your first game every day gives you Gran instead of FM. Won't be a huge boost, but it might be just enough to both get people to play more often, and to actually be able to afford to buy things! Even if you lose, you'll get 10 Gran you wouldn't have otherwise, and if you win, you'll get a little more. Or if you defeat a higher level player, you'll get a better amount.

Because I think we can all agree, two of the various problems this game has right now is things are too expensive, and not enough people are playing. This could help both of those. So, opinions?


People should be rewarded for losing?

What makes you think not enough people are playing?
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Re: Game suggestions

Postby Phades » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:40 pm

Grain wrote:
Illyasviel wrote:I have a suggestion. Gran for battles! Basically like Mirage Master, your first game every day gives you Gran instead of FM. Won't be a huge boost, but it might be just enough to both get people to play more often, and to actually be able to afford to buy things! Even if you lose, you'll get 10 Gran you wouldn't have otherwise, and if you win, you'll get a little more. Or if you defeat a higher level player, you'll get a better amount.

Because I think we can all agree, two of the various problems this game has right now is things are too expensive, and not enough people are playing. This could help both of those. So, opinions?


People should be rewarded for losing?

What makes you think not enough people are playing?
3 people in folart arena 8~9pm PST and later? Something along his suggestion should only belong outside of the 1-9 arena, if implemented. Without rewarding both sides, then it is merely an extension of the treasure battles where only the winners profit and the losers keep losing and eventually lose interest.
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