Anyone having success with Refess?

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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby Grain » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:52 pm

AidanHawke3 wrote:lol thanks...that's good advice? =) You know I didn't even see at the bottom of this page there were two more pages of posts, ugh I'm not a very good forum person, I'm just waiting for the server to go back up lol


DanTheTimid claims to have a max RP in the... 1700's I think?
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby AidanHawke3 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:07 pm

Damn my RP is probably like a negative =/ What do you guys think about using that monster Sphinx guy? Just propping him up there with like a blue Sorcerer Guard and a Raise Shield to buff up his DEF and just picking dudes off with some of those new Angel Lycanthropes. Like a blue/yellow hybrid deck thing.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby Grain » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:08 pm

AidanHawke3 wrote:Damn my RP is probably like a negative =/ What do you guys think about using that monster Sphinx guy? Just propping him up there with like a blue Sorcerer Guard and a Raise Shield to buff up his DEF and just picking dudes off with some of those new Angel Lycanthropes. Like a blue/yellow hybrid deck thing.


If you want to discuss strategy, go to Annarose's Sanctum.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby DanTheTimid » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:23 pm

Grain wrote:
AidanHawke3 wrote:lol thanks...that's good advice? =) You know I didn't even see at the bottom of this page there were two more pages of posts, ugh I'm not a very good forum person, I'm just waiting for the server to go back up lol


DanTheTimid claims to have a max RP in the... 1700's I think?


Actually my max RP is in the mid 1800s, but max RP just means you were good once, it doesn't mean your still good. Players skill levels might not change, but as new cards come out the game itself can change dramatically. Since set 2 came out I've become part of the group of people who lose more then they win, so if I have any advice to give in this new set 2 era for refess players, its only what doesn't work.

I will say though that it is true my set 1 deck featured nothing higher then level 3 and still won more games then it lost as a refess deck. Its also true I'm constantly changing my deck (infact I really want the game to get back up already cause I have some new deck ideas I'm dying to test out).

I do appreciate you giving me such a positive shout out Gran, but right now its really not warranted, I mean the whole purpose of this thread was to see if anyone was having success with refess because I haven't been so I was actually looking to others for advice (or at least hope that a winning refess recipe was possible). So far the only glimmer of hope came from the CEO of Media Blasters who apparently won a few games with a refess deck built for him by the best japanese player (though we didn't get any details about the strength of the players he beat). Its not much to go on, but atleast its something I guess.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby Grain » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:32 pm

DanTheTimid wrote:I do appreciate you giving me such a positive shout out Gran


...

You're welcome!
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby Porky » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:19 am

Here's a strat maybe some of you could try, personally I decided I didn't like refess enough to do it even though i got quite a few set 2 rares-_-

Build a deck around stalling and scorching sun? The card that reduces all lvl4 and under to 10 hp, use roguerest as ss and time it, splash gowen for exploding spores. If you can time it along with maybe other ss or cards that +sp, wipe their board a few times and attack them directly!

It seems like a one trick pony though, if they can anticipate it, you're screwed =) But that can be said about most decks.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby Logress » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:48 am

The burning sun strat is a bit easier to time if you use higher level cards like the phoenix and maybe Time Reader, who can raise one unit's level by 1 and give them +10 AT permanently.
When we were testing we used Refess as the "Default" deck. If we were worried about a combo (like fairy dance / exploding spores) or (Dalos/anything) or (Fire Dragon/Earth Dragon) or single card being too strong, then we'd play it against a standard, no endless morning, no cards higher then rarity 3, mostly set 2 Refess deck. The idea was if Refess couldn't win in three tries (the three tries was for the Refess player to figure out a strategy) something was wrong. Whenever that happened, we tweaked something.
I think that playing Refess with a self-buff deck (all the cards that give AT bonuses), probably including Lycanthrope Angel for his 1/3 turns buff, will be pretty effective in general, but if Refess wants to be really, really competitive the best way to play I've found is to super conservative with SP. Maintain an SP advantage over a short term tactics advantage. To do that, you need to keep in mind some big rules of SP.
1 - Using SP to bring out a unit is investing SP for the future, because you will get it back.
2 - Using SP to power a special ability burns away that SP forever. I think Folrart Trick Shield Knight is one of the best cards in set 2 and I only used his Skill once in 20 games.
3 - Reviving a unit burns away that SP forever.
4 - Grimoires except for Recovery Powder burn SP forever.
5 - The only way to do huge damage on command without spending SP is to use Soul Cards.

If you can survive the early game using Soul Cards to do your big damage and keeping your guys alive as long as possible, minimizing revivals (if possible, letting a card go to the cemetery and bringing it out again gives you a 1 SP advantage, if that soul card you just set off forces the enemy to revive two units, you've got a 3 SP advantage over him) while forcing your opponent to use Grimoires and revive, you'll get a big SP advantage in the mid-late game. Only use an SP burning Skill if it will force the enemy to Revive and keep your SP costs the same on both sides of the board. If everything goes okay, you should have enough SP to bring out your level 4-7 cards while he'll find he's out of good level 2 cards to throw down and he'll have to wait to bring out something bigger.
So what about returns? Well, if the enemy uses a standard return Grimoire on you, it won't give him any SP advantage, but it could weaken your field position, causing you to get hammered and be forced to Revive. That's always a danger, but hopefully your SP advantage will help you recover. If you make it to the end game, his Returns won't matter as much. Thankfully for dealing with Witch, Refess reliance on level 3 units actually turns into an advantage.
Also, this new look at SP gives me more respect for Holy Light, a card I used to think was terrible. In the end game, LP and cards have a pretty high value. Holy Light effectively gives you both. (LP because it lets you revive your sacrifice cards like Wisp and Armed Citizens you wouldn't normally revive). 5 SP is steep, but you are also saving the cost of Revival. If you revive 2 units, you're cost is 3 SP to (effectively) get 2 cards from the Cemetery. If you revive 3, you're paying 2 to get 3. But the real value of Holy Light is this... you're cards have lots of HP, there a bit of work to take down, but the enemy has lots of ways to do this, Grimoires, Soul Cards, "glass cannons", etc. You can't really stop him from taking them down. However, if you engineer it so that they all fall at once (and remember, he's trying to get that to happen, too, so it's not as hard as it sounds) by choosing when to rest, and who to heal, then having them all pop back at once with Holy Light, you've created an intimidating situation. You've got a whole bunch of high HP units on the field with full HP all at once. Since Refess cards come out slowly, by the time one high HP unit is on the field, the enemy has usually put down or severely weakened your last high HP unit. Your enemy has probably never seen 3 high HP Refess units on the field all with full HP at once! All of a sudden, taking them all down seems like a very lengthy prospect and it's the end game, where hopefully you have enough SP to do stuff and he doesn't.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby DanTheTimid » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:19 am

Thank you VERY much Logress, that was a very interesting read indeed. Most of it isn't really "refess" strategy but just general alteil strategy that I think a lot of new players don't quite grasp and thus useful for any player. I know it took me a while to really get a grip on the whole "sp investment not payment" concept for units and when I finally came to grips with it it helped me out alot.

I'd say the biggest issues with keeping the field alive, atleast for me, are pinpoint, targeted abilities, and just bad random luck. If an opponent can at all help it he generally goes after one unit at a time, only a foolish player would purposely spread the damage out and allow your slow refess units to actually get a chance to act. This is why I just haven't found holy light all that useful. That and the fact that unless you were at level 5 anyway (which other then a few obscure decks I've tried I usually never go above level 3) its a 7 sp price tag for holy light, not 5. Its hard enough to even have that much sp sitting around even if your trying to be sp conservative. If your actually running other level 5 cards you only need 5 but then you've been spending your sp more aggressively so its even less likely you have that sp available. I think if I was going to use a level 5 revive card I'd be more likely to use Retear and his revive one closed unit open ability, cost is still heavy but atleast I get a decent field presence out of it and I didn't need to rely on luck clearing out my whole field at once.

Oh, and I may have to look into splashing Angel into non endless morning decks and see how it goes based on your advice. It seems hard for me to believe only being able to do anything 1 turn out of every 3 would really be worth it but I admit its a card I have been over looking since set 2 came out.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby ANIMEniac » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:44 pm

Well, it doesn't hurt to have both. If you find yourself on the receiving end of consecutive damage souls, you may see Holy Light a good time. If not, then use the other guy.

Lawt (the "poor man" Lawt) have always tried to cope with the 1/3 time useful units XD. However, it is a little easier now to hold night for a few extra turns w/o Eska.

Lawt gets a night opening which is pretty nice for our first play. I was thinking Refress could do Aco > Angel > Armed citizen. Turn 2 is day for angel, gives all +10 AT. Same turn you are setting Armed, another 10 AT. So that turn you got a 40 or 45 damage hitter, and possibly able to bring LvL 3 next turn. Doesn't sound too bad.

EDIT: Man, i gotta look at some of these cards better.

Also, at least Angel gets to have 20 AT off day time.
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Re: Anyone having success with Refess?

Postby GunCastor » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:08 pm

Anyone take a look at the Swallow Scout card yet? It's Soul Ability does 30 to everyone with 3 AGI or more. It's a good card to start out with against the other spheres if you still start with Bless Acoylte and Folrart Paladin. Sacrifice a level 1 card around second or third turn and its quite effective.

I also find Magic Bolt surprisingly effective, despite its low damage output. But support units and Wizard Archer of Regus have low hp anyways so it works. It also takes out Lycans before Eskatia kicks in.
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