Refess: One Trick Pony?

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Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby Grain » Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:33 pm

Is there any Refess strategy which succeeds besides the high level strategy with Seraph & Recovery Powder?
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby kitsunekit » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:10 pm

There's only 200 cards in the game and Refess has been given the worst in set 1.

Look at it: defense is useless as every color has ways to counter it because le Beau was so otherwise difficult to handle in set 1 strat. So def kinda sucks. Yet Refess units sacrifice HP, ATK, AGI and/or LV for their DEF. Making their units generally weaker than most others (or at least without the nifty abilities of others).

Healing is too hard in this game (as Grimoire initiative is random and you can't "delay" a unit's turn, such as a unit with a healing effect for when units need healing).

Realizing this, they were given some nice creatures in the latest set. But the latest set's theme is large creatures. So yes, their only viable strat as of this point is large creatures since that's the theme of the current set (hence the set's name "Rise of the Dragon Emperor").

Morning is very hard to run as there are only so-many-morning cards. Seraph is needed in (some) morning decks as a soul card, so that's -1 unit, which can be death. even when she's out, she costs way too much SP, and refess has the worst SP generation aside from Lawtia (pasaran are way too weak and require 2 to get +1, whereas Falkow and Gowen both has requirement 1 SP to get +1). They have powder, but that's also the worst of the 4 SP generation cards (arguably). I mean, 10 HP healing is "ok" in late game, but you want to generate SP early game, where ATK and AGI are more important than 10 extra HP during the pre-combat phase (HP during the pre-combat phase are usually useless given that most units die in one hit in everything but the mid-game...). Falkow has the best early game SP generator, as its bonus doesn't require having a unit in play.

Refess was given a pretty good angel, which adds some SP generation. She can take and even deal out some hits, but she is awfully high level and usually becomes a quick target for too many bad cards. Plus, she is level 3, so still easily hit by return/witch/burning sun/etc...
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby Romdeau » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:46 pm

HP was not reduced significantly; Refess boasts the highest HP units in any of the spheres. Refess has been designed so that it can outlast their opponents after they have exhausted all of their resources to take down their big HP and DF units.
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby DanTheTimid » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:53 pm

Kitsune explained it pretty well, other then the hp part (which is more of their focus then defense is), so yeah its true they don't have any other options, but honestly I'm just happy there IS a competitive deck available to refess now. Also, to be fair, the second set is still pretty young, its still possible new successful refess strategies might show up that just haven't been discovered yet. I wouldn't hold my breath on that occurring, but I wouldn't rule it out either.
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby Phades » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:49 pm

I don't know if i would go along with the "big HP" thing as the refress trait either considering how all critters got bigger in set 2. The refress emperor is the lowest hp count in addition to the holy dragon. In the instance of the dragon, the difference is minimal though. Fairy dance can apply a lot of hp over a few turns as well, even though blessing edges it out slightly vs a single target (only looking at +HP not other effects).

At least refress has tricks this time around though.
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby Logress » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:46 pm

I would say that the Counters (mostly Coatl) constitute a big trick, and overall they have more above average HP multipurpose units with more autoskills, startskills, and action skills. They also have a few units capable of dealing consistent big damage which they were missing before. I don't mind their DF, because generally they have a little here, a little there. Not enough to make a Lebeau nerf efficient, but enough to make everything survive a few more turns then you'd think. I find the magic number is 15.
Most importantly, Refess is no longer dependent on the three man front line which is basically suicide. They can do a one or two man front line, which helps them keep Lawtia and Gowen's ridiculous row clearers at bay. I need more time to be sure, because I put in lots of Refess time (my final incarnation of my Ernst deck is undefeated, although I never ended up fighting any of the top players with it) when set 2 came out, and only recently started pounding my Falkow deck, but I'm pretty sure Falkow is the weaker sphere now, though not by the margin that Refess was before.

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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby Romdeau » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:22 pm

Logress wrote:when set 2 came out, and only recently started pounding my Falkow deck, but I'm pretty sure Falkow is the weaker sphere now, though not by the margin that Refess was before.

So I've yet to encounter a successful (RP of 1700 and above-that's being rather generous too) Falkow Iczer since set 2 was released. How the mighty sphere has fallen...yet I still hear a snuff every now and then how Falkow is a power house of tricks. Well, the only tricky people I run into these days are the ones that skip and don't put any SP into their sphere. I really feel like this sphere's potential is being overlooked by many players.
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby kitsunekit » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:15 am

Well it should be noted that the higher HP of refess is highly overrated. As posted earlier, the other "big creatures" of other spheres have much better defense. Lawtia has some great "survivability" that looks beyond HP (lycan, skeleton warriors, animated dead, etc...). And frankly, those defenses usually work better than HP in the long run.

The "increased HP" of Refess are usually between 30 and 45 for most of their units level 2-3. The issue is other spheres have units 3~ish that not only have 30+ ATK, BUT higher AGI than Refess, making the theme a bit flawed. >_>'

On some japanese fansites I'm on, they also have the lowest number of deck types and stradegies, even into set 10-11. But the carbuncles of the future are quite impressive...stone carbuncle being a level 2-3 with around 40 attack and good defense...amazing.
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby ManiacalSoul » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:39 am

Romdeau wrote:
Logress wrote:when set 2 came out, and only recently started pounding my Falkow deck, but I'm pretty sure Falkow is the weaker sphere now, though not by the margin that Refess was before.

So I've yet to encounter a successful (RP of 1700 and above-that's being rather generous too) Falkow Iczer since set 2 was released. How the mighty sphere has fallen...yet I still hear a snuff every now and then how Falkow is a power house of tricks. Well, the only tricky people I run into these days are the ones that skip and don't put any SP into their sphere. I really feel like this sphere's potential is being overlooked by many players.


I've seen one... 1790 rp or thereabouts... That is if u count a deck thats 2/5 falkow, 2/5 refess, and 1/5 gowen, though is centered around a falkow unit. That said... yes... falkow in general has taken a beating in set 2...
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Re: Refess: One Trick Pony?

Postby EvilGenius » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:18 am

I said it before... Refess may have the HP advantage, but not by much (like 5 HP?). Compare Folrart Paladin to a ranked up Revolver Knight.
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