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crimsonshade wrote:Don't think this topic is about Xovian complaining about his draw/"loss", or about his battle in particular for that matter... he's just asking the general opinion of the public about draw games. I hope people can see that.
Xovian wrote:The game basically becomes a draw at turn 3 or 4. The opponent knew he was forcing a draw, and stated such since he would get XP and RP from the draw (he was lower in both).
Now my question is, do people agree this is a valid tactic?
People get draws, and even forcing them is sometimes a valid tactic, and even excepted as fair play.
Both had lost plenty of LP in the fight to say the least, and the draw didnt actually "occur" until the turns were in the upper 20's.
But in this case what does the game fall under?
For me, I found it to be exploitative and aggravating to be forced to go from such an early game to draw so quickly with no hope of even playing, just because the opponent would get XP and RP.
I'm not arguing that this can happen, I'm not even saying it shouldn't happen at times.
My "beef" is that I didn't even get to play.
I'm asking opinions about the way the draw occurred, and what the thoughts on that are overall.
He clearly states he's talking about this specific game, he clearly states he's talking about this sort of draw and not "valid" draws where matches come to the conclusion after 20 such turns. He clearly states he is aggravated by the fact that he was in a no win situation early on, but says "no hope of even playing," making it sound like it's not his fault he was placed in that situation.
Xovian wrote:Considering I have EN and could do the exact same thing, it isnt because I don't know that this can be done, but I personally prefer to play games out.
Makes it sound like this tactic could be done easily anytime, but it was in fact, a fairly unique situation, specific to this type of file. Any other proxy even would not have been killed by a flesh recycle, and that flesh recycle was necessary so that pull would not kill ex riza or succubus. Saying you personally prefer to play games out gives the impression that, that's the honorable thing to do.
For example, "Considering I have x overpowered meta and could do the EXACT same thing, it isn't because I don't know this can be done, but personally, I prefer to play files for fun." <-- You see this line all the time on the forum, it doesn't exactly say "oh I'm more righteous" straight out, but you can get the intention, or at least you can at least see how such an intention could be construed.
Xovian wrote:Is knowingly forcing a draw because it benefits a player RP, XP, FM wise, considered a valid play tactic, and one that should be encouraged and/or condoned.
Xovian then clarifies his 'actual' intent for his original post here. I think the use of the term "tactic" here is a mistaken word choice considering that the 'motive' for causing a draw has nothing to do with play or tactics. The issue of how draws can benefit or punish a player is certainly a valid concern, but calling it a 'tactic' is a misnomer.
Xovian wrote:I will say this, I'd really like to know the logic of being "outplayed" a number of people are referring too.
I'm just not seeing the whole "lack of counter = outplayed"....nope just not seeing that one.
If it is...WELLL I got's an idea...
If this is being "outplayed" i'd like to say Ex Primrose needs to be returned to what she was prior to the first nerf...after all if its skill and "outplaying", and not the use of combination or mechanics by the reasoning some of you are putting forth, then why shouldn't she be?
The reason why I personally said outplayed is because playing to me, starts at deck construction. You either failed to consider the problems of not having a solution to a situation like this, or you chose to ignore it. It's like EN or low level rushes weighing the benefits of their file vs getting cycloned. Perfectly acceptable. The point is, your opponent still had the capacity to figure out what kind of file you were going to play, or at least have an idea that you wouldn't have any low level cards and capitalized on it, supporting it by flesh recycling your proxy, a fairly key move. You twisting the word around because you're bitter over the use of the word to compare a clearly overpowered blanket combo is the same as a very specific, very fragile hard counter speaks volumes. At the least it's very clear you are offended by this terminology (and perfectly within your right to be offended by such comments imo). I don't really think you should be though, I think everyone knows you're a good player.
Just as azure said, you may tack on at the end of some of your posts that you just wanted to hear people's opinions, but it's fairly clear you had already taken a side and therefore was biased to begin with in your responses, going so far as to be defensive over your unofficial position. If you truly wanted to hear everyone's pure opinions, you should not have made your own feelings on the matter clear. Also diverting replies saying "you could've done this or you should've done that" aren't exactly off topic because they're the source of how many posters reached their conclusions. Some "unsatisfactory" answers you may have gotten are also due to how unclear your "true" question was, as I pointed out at the first part of this post.
Try not to take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to attack you personally, but this thread was not created with a purely intellectual intent, because of how things were worded and their tone, (even the topic name Just a consensus dot dot dot), but rather a way of seeing how many people sided with your feelings and how many people do not.
Xovian wrote:Yes there are plenty of counters, but no file can carry all counters...thats just part of the game, so you are correct in the fact it was a game that ended the way it did because i didnt have the counters.
However, the rewards from such a game should not be condoned or encouraged.
Thus far I think I'm the only person that does not think it should be a valid tactic.
Seems a vast majority now approve of such play given the competitive nature of the game.
I wouldn't have thought so, but I enjoy the replies, gives food for thought for everyone if nothing else.
Even in psychological surveys, researchers can introduce researcher bias by how questions are stated unknowingly. Well, it's not like I'm telling you it's wrong to state your own feelings on the matter, but rather I'm just backing up Azure's statements.
Oh, and I don't really feel like calling "having a card of lvl 3 or lower in my file," can really be considered a counter. That's just how I feel, since I'm not really sure merely having that would've necessarily "countered" anything, but rather, prevented putting you in that unique situation. It's like in this situation, calling having 2-3 copies of a unit (proxy) a "counter." Just sounds weird to me.
That was fun