So how could I have played this any better?

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So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Demongod » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:14 pm

https://login.alteil.com/auditorium/ind ... a66d10c123

My Peg Kingdom vs. Khalida's Allind Armageddon file.

Didn't want to iczer into resource in the beginning since I'd lose my last owl sage. Was it just a matter of having a third owl sage to be able to iczer past the resource and revive him?

Anything else that can possibly be done to improve this matchup beyond what I have, or is this simply a matter of

"WK LAMER! EAT IT! EAT IT!"

?
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby GonFreeces31 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:52 pm

I refuse to ever watch this video, because you are basically saying, "I played perfect!!! ;zagar ;zagar ... but lost. Tell me I played perfect so I can feel happy about myself."

Maybe ask Logress for a cookie or a little trophy :D
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Demongod » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:56 pm

No, it's literally what it says on the tin. Where could I have played it better?
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby pangloss » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:22 pm

Never played either of these styles of decks, so this is just theorycrafting, but here is my advice.

First of all, why play oseon right away? Since you have 2 copies he is a liability for prematurely activating your SS, which are crucial here. Plus at 50 HP and with no useful skill he is just going to be crushed by allind. I think you should've played Mage Knight of Regus that turn. This would've gotten you an extra grimbane on the turn you cast owl sage.

Second, why play fencer after you get down owl sage? Although fencer is your only unit that survives allind, what is it going to do to allind next turn? Attack for 30? It really doesn't seem to do much in this MU except maybe slow down a Bringer (does this file even run those?), and why would big red play Bringer if you already had out a fencer? Playing fencer left you with 1 SP, and since owl sage moved after Mage Knight of Regus, you lost another chance to grimbane. If you were going to play something here, I think EX: Wiz would be the way to go.

I think I would've gone Cath -> Mage Knight of Regus -> Play Owl Sage + Grim Bane -> Use Owl Sage (or it gets dragon's breathed) + Grim Bane -> EX: Wiz (free revive after wipe, good fodder to trigger SS); Use Owl Sage + Grim Bane. I think you maybe overextended with your lead, with 2 units sitting there doing nothing (oseon + fencer) except costing 1 SP to revive.

The end game, I don't have as many comments on...I think if you changed the early game the end game would have changed too much to really describe how to play it, but I will say I think Oseon may have not really been necessary this game, because you probably could've put 3 into Refess manually for Pegasus if you had to.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Pancakes » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:36 pm

school him pangloss lol

I would say basically what pangloss says only I would add "foo!" after every line as in, "Never played either of these styles of decks, so this is just theorycrafting, but here is my advice, foo!"

Well yeah Mage paladin is the classic counter to these big decks. I remember I would just get a frog and 2 mage paladins on the field after allind dropped and kill all his grims over the course of 3 turns or so. Also, I'd have a skeleton master to have an infinite supply of frogs FOO! I also had the ice arrow girl archer too. Which wrecks big cards.

This was back when I was a free player and that's all I had to stop Allind :lol:

Did this against some top player in order to manage a draw. I leveled up immediately at that point from the draw and got a Limier for it. :lol:

Anyways... your opponent is not dumb and he will probably b-slap your mage paladin with fire arrow 3x. So yeah.Maybe I should run Allind now too. ;a40 ;a40 ;a40 ;a40
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby imortal12233 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:01 pm

actually... having played mid red (not big red, but close enough), as well as having played peg kingdom against mid and big red (and winning on numerous occasions):
mage knight's grim bane is overrated in this matchup, and sp used to grimbane is sp not used to iczer. The only time mage knight's grim bane is worth it is if you expect primclone (and is definitly worth it if prim is already dropped).

Having looked at the game I can say this:

1) probably should have played owl sage turn 2 rather than Oseon. unless you were hoping for backlash
2) return the proxy! you won't have many more uses for return in this matchup and draining 3 sp from your opponent while you have owl sage out is very helpful.
3) Although khalida sometimes runs primclone, making grimbane viable, once you got rid of the first cyclone, you should have stopped and went to iczering.
4) his fire arrows on mage knight were not because he feared mage knight's grimbane (or at least that was probably not the main reason), but because he wanted as many units as possible to be sent to cem at once so he could dodge what he though was a normal return SS with certainty.
5) should have started iczering on turn 9, since allind drop following turn was somewhat predictable. turn 8 might have also been a valid turn to start iczering, but waiting for turn 10 was wrong.

I am not sure if following these would have helped you win, as khalida is a good player and this is without a doubt a bad matchup, but those, I believe, would have helped.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby pangloss » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:23 pm

Interesting! I didn't think of returning the proxy and was off with thinking grim denial would matter that much. I was hoping somehow the grim denial would keep him from coming back quickly after the song sorceress on the allind, but looking at it again he actually doesn't play any grims (or cards) between the first and second allind (except shear winds).

Well, I would listen to imortal on this one...experience > theory.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby imortal12233 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:28 pm

returning the proxy is generally better against files that run dryad soldier (or similar) first SS, so it wouldn't have been as effective that match-up. Still, it would have helped.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby garcia1000 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:32 pm

Here are my comments on mistakes

Turn 2 - Oseon, wat? How about literally any other card would be better here. I would do Owl Sage for sure.
Turn 3 - You should return here without even thinking about it. Owl sage is a pretty terrible play here, not understanding the matchup. What are you going to do with your returns later?
Turn 4 - Mage Knight shows a wrong understanding of the matchup again. Wizkingdom always has card disadvantage, but SP advantage. Also you can consider iczering his face while you don't have many units for him to hit with his SS. Those LP aren't going to lose themselves.
Turn 6 - You hit the jackpot on your first grimbane! Now you can get out EX Wiz if you like. This turn is OK I think, although I wouldn't have bothered with grimbane.
Turn 7 - his fire arrow is pretty bad I think. You should iczer a lot here though
Turn 8 - WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF ICZER HIM
Turn 9 - Again I think fire arrow is a misplay. I think the only explanation for turns 7-9 is that a bizarre bug locked out the 'Iczer Attack' option
Turn 12 - Why are you summoning sorc monk here?
Turn 14 - I have no words for this
Turn 16 - lol random pegasus. Anyway you've lost by now




I think on a scale of 1 to 10 your play would be around D-

Edit: I read imortal's explanation of the fire arrow thing. Hmm, makes sense.

Return is super good combined with owl sage T2. You get SP advantage, deny him the 3 Gowen from dryad soldier first SS, and delay his game.

Grimbaning too much with mage knight is probably the most common wiz kingdom trap that newbies fall into. Generally speaking, grim bane is a terrible choice, always. Except sometimes it is the best choice by far.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Demongod » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:34 pm

imortal12233 wrote:actually... having played mid red (not big red, but close enough), as well as having played peg kingdom against mid and big red (and winning on numerous occasions):
mage knight's grim bane is overrated in this matchup, and sp used to grimbane is sp not used to iczer. The only time mage knight's grim bane is worth it is if you expect primclone (and is definitly worth it if prim is already dropped).

Having looked at the game I can say this:

1) probably should have played owl sage turn 2 rather than Oseon. unless you were hoping for backlash
2) return the proxy! you won't have many more uses for return in this matchup and draining 3 sp from your opponent while you have owl sage out is very helpful.
3) Although khalida sometimes runs primclone, making grimbane viable, once you got rid of the first cyclone, you should have stopped and went to iczering.
4) his fire arrows on mage knight were not because he feared mage knight's grimbane (or at least that was probably not the main reason), but because he wanted as many units as possible to be sent to cem at once so he could dodge what he though was a normal return SS with certainty.
5) should have started iczering on turn 9, since allind drop following turn was somewhat predictable. turn 8 might have also been a valid turn to start iczering, but waiting for turn 10 was wrong.


I am not sure if following these would have helped you win, as khalida is a good player and this is without a doubt a bad matchup, but those, I believe, would have helped.


1) Yeah, was expecting a backlash here, because a lot more people have access to big refess than big red. Needless to say I said "Oh...CRAP" when I saw Pullermia.
2) Will do in the future.
3) Noted.
4) Was trying to grimbane out the sin protection. You're saying I should just CHAAAARGE with iczering? Okay.
5) Understood.

Will keep in mind for next time.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

For the great justice of the diverse meta.
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