So how could I have played this any better?

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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Zanador » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:37 pm

While basically i agree with imortal (and like that i aslo agree with pangloss), i've faced similar matchups too, and here is my stlye:
Use your nose. Khalida has been using 12LP proxy decks for months now, and one of his recent matches were posted on the forum too. So if you meet Khalida and he has 12LP, expect proxy+nuke.

Drop the Catherina. Nice card and +1SP nonetheless, but -1LP in this situation you want to conserve your SS at all cost. Play Owl sage on the first turn. With a skip-proxy opening, the sage will be safe for at least 2 turns, and if its changed to skip-dragon breath, you won a turn already.
As a general rule: if your opponent doesnt summon anything for real, and seems to be preparing for something, dont summon anything of your own either. Get that SP generator unit and a meatshield on the field and nothing more. Big decks can get away with so many turns without summoning because they have ways to clear your field. Dont help them by giving them a large field to nuke.
In this case, imho, Imortal vastly underestimates the importance of grim bane. Cyclone and Roar of the Flame Emperor are both lethal, and you should try to get rid of them as soon as possible. The more so, because Roar gets stronger by each use, so the more you can grimbane of them, the more cards you've saved for yourself. First Roar deals 45 damage, so some of your units can survive that, but if you still didnt get rid of any more of them, its 2 fieldwipes you are facing now.
These kind of decks also have Shear winds, and that can ruin your assassin. You dont want that either.

The other thing to keep in mind: time is SP. You have great SS to get rid of big units, namely Allind in this case, so rely on it. Returning Allind will give you a nice 9 SP advantage, but thats naturally regenerated in 4 turns (well, basically). After the assassination, time works against you. Aim for finishing the game fast. Make sure to be able to revive all your units on the field at least once (preferably twice) at this point. 3x Fire arrow or something of similar nature are usual ways to mess up your SS timing, and you want to make this as hard for your opponent as possible while you still continue to iczer.


So, in summary: Forget your usual opening (it wasnt designed to face this situation), summon owl sage and mage knight early on, and at most 1 more unit, you wont miss too much (because you have to lose 3 LP before your return combo. maybe elite fencer, coz she can survive the 50 nuke, and you will be able to resummon her later if needed). Once Allind hits, forget about any unit that has been killed, they are done for, and proceed to summon a completly new field with fresh units. Iczer, like there is no tomorrow, because you only have 4 turns at most to deal as much damage as possible. If you managed to get rid of 3-5 LP, brace yourself for more nukes. No matter how obvious it looks, make sure to hit something with your assassin SS too. For something fat, like Allind, Bringer or Athira Shin, even sacrificing a lvl3 unit isnt too much at this point. And in the end, its a race for you to iczer the last couple of LP before your opponent can cast more nukes/endgame units on you.


Well, this worked for me, that worked for imortal. Pick one, or use them to come up with your own stlye. Have fun. :)
Something must be wrong with me. I'm giving advices to someone i should kill.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Demongod » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:55 pm

Actually thanks a lot for that. I'm still a bit confused, so I guess I'll probably post more anti-big losses I have.

That said, my file right now is:

3x Elite
3x EXwiz
3x Mage Knight
3x Sorc Monk
3x Peg
3x Return
2x Owl Sage
2x Oseon
1x Sweeping TIdalwave
1x Catherina
1x Undine

SSs: as you saw. If the opponent doesn't know they're coming, they're going to get socked with them. If they are, so long as the match is playable, they'll still hit.

I am just wondering though if you'd recommend a -1 return +1 owl sage, or if that would weaken it vs. rushes too much (would only have 1 sweeping and 1 return then since sweeping will eat one).
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Zanador » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:41 am

Hm, good question. I've never ran 3x owl sages (for a while, i didnt even have the playset.. tho can you imagine: before tidalwave, people were telling me that 2 sages were only a waste of space), but 2 just seems to be a good amount of this card.
Since its so fragile, there is bound to be a point in any match where it will die. Whether because it was caught up in a field nuke or coz it was sniped, doesnt really matter. I think adding the third copy would make it last 2-3 turns more at most (if you are lucky), and if you take that 1 SP off for reviving..
2-->3 wont give you such a huge advantage as 1-->2.

Btw, i've seen your deck before, and its mostly based on the idea that i'm usually using too: Units to face common decks/rushes, and SS to handle the big guys. Since set2, most of my files were built along these lines too, from every sphere but refess, thats why i'm mostly interested in the plans and how you play the units instead of which units you have.
Facing big decks with this kind of file needs a kind of extreme thinking, because you have to keep your units' skills in mind, but the cards "lose their faces". "If it has more than 50 hp it will live, if it doesnt, it dies. now, how can i use a dead unit, and how many dead cards do i want on the field?"... A nuker will only care about how many times you can revive your units and how can he get the most kills with everything he's got, and if you are facing a nuker, you are thinking the same way..

Because of this, more often than not, i use witch, haste, sylphes and undines as endgame units to iczer as much as i can, while in a "normal" match i'd summon them at the begining.
Something must be wrong with me. I'm giving advices to someone i should kill.
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Callonia » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:48 am

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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Khalida » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:56 am

Demongod wrote:1) Yeah, was expecting a backlash here, because a lot more people have access to big refess than big red. Needless to say I said "Oh...CRAP" when I saw Pullermia.


That isn't true. I told you what kind of deck i play first or second turn and suggested you should better give up :lol:
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Re: So how could I have played this any better?

Postby Demongod » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:59 am

AFTER I saw Pullermia.
Nerf Elite Fencer. Change start skill to "target unit of agi 4 or higher gets AGI = 3. Then, this unit gets AGI = 4 for this turn and ATK +10"

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