Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

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Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby harvest4god » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:07 pm

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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Pancakes » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:44 pm

You made some questionable choices on some of those turns. Like... for instance. No cyclone? What? If you are going to play big pullermia you should go all the way.

Also, I think he played smarter, but still we only got to see his smart play because you didn't cyclone him which would have settled the game much earlier. Yeah and the grim used to win was like...meh. Would have been nice to see a clever move beat him not just a big stick.

I would say it was a great game if you'd actually cycloned and it went on for that long. But this game was like an artificial abstraction detached from logic.

Anyone and everyone is free to disagree.

But I'm not insulting your play. It's just that all the clever moves that extended the game happened on his side of the field.

If someone disagrees feel free to explain why. I just issued my comments detached from all personal reference. This is just a comment on the actions in the game in quesion.

You played competently of course. And now that I think of it he played his Sakura at LEAST one turn too soon. He should have let that Athira Shin get big first. At least that is what I would have done but I wouldn't have had all those cool saves he had with prim and fairy.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby azurewrath » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:34 pm

AH that is because you don't understand Big Red my dear waffle. Big Red doesn't pack cyclone because it is unnecessary. In the files it would be useful in, it is either overkill or won't be used due to Fierte. You know that card right? I think you might want to keep your advice contained to files that contain Fierte + Returns or whatever. Big smashy damage might not be it for you.

Now for the match, why didn't you Allind on turn 5 or so? Would have field wiped and you could still Rapid/ MoF after the Allind due to you getting 5 sp from the MoF. That, and the first shear winds was a bit early, but I guess it is never bad to be prepared.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Logress » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:29 am

Both files seemed strong enough not to carry specific counters. The big red didn't have any cyclones, the Gowen rush didn't have any Assassins. A fair matchup.

The first turn Harvest could have played the cyclone was turn 4, that would delay Shin a turn (he'd have 6 less SP, 1 from not using Mof, 1 from the Falkow level, 4 from the grim ... btw, that gives him a 1 SP advantage, returning 3 level 2's including a Blitz which counts for an extra 1) and put Shin up against 3 units instead of 5 (assuming he wants to follow shin up with bringer and the SP to monster out, otherwise the turn delay wouldn't have been necessary). Three Gowen level 2's could still tustle Shin, especially if they were backed up with an offensive grim instead of the dance. Not that Cyclone would have been a bad move, but I don't think it would have been a lot better. Especially since letting the enemy fill the field allowed for turn 8 to happen, along with turn 10 and 11, where two souls were triggered simultaneously, allowing them both to be defended against with a single shear winds.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Khalida » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:09 am

In my big red file I also don't have cyclone. I made the experience that killing rushes with allind and damagegrims like roar of the flame emperor or ball of flame is much better than returning low lvls.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Spears » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:43 am

I think the lack of Volcano wyvern was more suprising than the lack of cyclone.
thanks for sharing.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby harvest4god » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:48 pm

ok. I will be honest. Cyclone is in there. But I only use it against lycans for the most part. I like to fight out gowen, its just in the spirit for me. As far as my last move. I knew he had another fire arrow and would try to bounce it. That's why it is a "clever" move.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Pancakes » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:38 pm

lol i was right and you guys were wrong. I don't even play Allind (except for lulz) and I knew he should have had a cyclone in there =/

why WOULDN'T you?

I also feel like it is much easier to play Allind in this matchup than to play the Gowen rush - and the rusher displayed foresight and timing beyond "I killed something time to sheer winds". And that is where my analysis was coming from.

Not a personal insult. Just my strategic analysis. You can substitute player WHOEVER into the Allind slot, and I'd still say the same thing.
I can only use Bringer, BKR Jack, and returns cuz I'm a free player. It's my best shot at winning!
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby azurewrath » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:30 pm

The reason that Cyclone isn't needed comes with experience playing Big Red. There is simply no need to have the grim. Against the files it is useful against (basically Gowen rush stands as the only good one here), it isn't needed due your it being a 9 to 1 ratio in your favor to begin with. Against the files it would help the most on (level 2 Fierte rush), you will never be able to play it if the rival was playing smart. It just ends up as a dead card as you get Fierte'd within turn 5. Basically, Cyclone wins you games you've already won. It might as well just be another damage grim instead.
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Re: Mid/big red vs Gowen rush

Postby Spears » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:13 am

azurewrath wrote:The reason that Cyclone isn't needed comes with experience playing Big Red. There is simply no need to have the grim. Against the files it is useful against (basically Gowen rush stands as the only good one here), it isn't needed due your it being a 9 to 1 ratio in your favor to begin with. Against the files it would help the most on (level 2 Fierte rush), you will never be able to play it if the rival was playing smart. It just ends up as a dead card as you get Fierte'd within turn 5. Basically, Cyclone wins you games you've already won. It might as well just be another damage grim instead.

i agree with this, just blow stuff up already. Having played a lot of en recently i realised that cyclone really doesnt mean gg.
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