Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

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Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby Metanoia » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:10 am

A bit of my personal history first. Not extremely relevant so you can skip tot the link below for the "meat".

So I am trying to get better at this game. I started a couple of weeks ago with the Lawtia starter. After getting destroyed a couple of times by Gowen I decided to switch to the Gowen starter. I cruised though Crest and read about good files on the forum. I tryed to get some good cards for my Gowen file by buying some packs but I got a lot of Undead and 30/30 stuff. So I figured I would try that. I was using Revenant and decided that Hellsmoke and PoM would probably be better. So a bought a box of set 5. I got 1 Hellsmoke and 0 PoM, but also 1 Athira Shin! But I was in Undead now so I decided to buy another box. 0 Hellmoke and 1 PoM, but another Athira Shin!!! I guess "the universe" were trying to tell me to go back to Gowen.


https://login.alteil.com/auditorium/ind ... ddab167837

So I would like some advice on my file and playstyle. The battle above is not exactly 'epic'. I lost to the 4th SS. I was expecting 30/30 long before that, so I cast my Freischutz in anticipation. I was wrong and had my only counter to Defense destroyed before it was needed. Should I have waited?
How about my opening, is that any good?
Should I go dual with Lawtia, so I can open with Shade and have some fuel for Der Freischutz later on?

Thanks for any tips you can ginve me!
"Impossible" only means it has never been done before.
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby zwanglos » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:18 am

Needs grims. ;a40 is very big on damage/attack grims. Throw some Dragon Breath in there when you get the chance. You could have used them to pop the two crest orderlies before he got the extra SP, which I think is one major reason you were losing, letting him get all that extra SP wasn't good. The dragon breath would have also helped later, to pop off the broken priests so your forest hero could target the dragon. A Fire Tornado could have helped take out the dragon had you timed it right and had the SP to pull it off.

I'm mostly a ;a39 player, but as far as I know double spore isn't much of an opening for ;a40 . There are better things you could start out with, maybe someone else has a good idea.

If you do decide to go dual ;a39 ;a40 , I'd recommend one or two Flesh Recycle cards, for the same reason as the fire breath, good for popping off small units even if they have high DF, and very good for handling the occasional Skeleton Warrior, too (due to Skeleton Warrior's close skill, a Flesh Recycle actually kills two of them off in one go. Mixing Warning Knife with Flesh Recycle can also pop off two of the other nasty regen units, like Revenant or Hell Smoke, though I only use that combo if I'm desperate).

And Corruption just points and laughs at LeBeau SS or other DF buffs.
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:27 pm

Just watched your video. I'll post my opion, which is just an opinion after all so take it for what it's worth.

- Definitely do not dual sphere. Honestly, it's just too complicated for beginners.
- Change the opening. Going spores-spores burns through too much LP, and honestly it's just not worth it for the first two SS you have.
- Building on that topic, mage pixy is just not worth it. Returns do not single handedly win games, despite what you may hear on the forums. In my opinion, return rage is WAY overrated.
- You have cards to make a competitive file. Sin and sergis are great SS. Athira shin is a great endgame unit.
- I would recommend taking der frewijfreio out. Massive defense doesn't come about often enough to make her a necessity.
- You might as well also consider adding a Rifleman Knight, Samurai Girl, or Dual Axe-Wielder since they seem like great additions to your deck.

With a few tweaks you can make a competitive file out of this. From there, it's just going to be getting used to the game. If you have any other questions and/or want to test your file in the training arena don't be shy about sending me a PM.

Good luck!
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby Artist » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:44 pm

I personally think you should change your play order, or at least unit composition a little bit. Your units don't really have a lot of synergy together, there's really not much combo going on. Der fruchuez gets played too early, and nothing of his even has DF so it becomes useless, and then it dies before you needed it. Feline kin seems to be your only front row unit and that's okay, but not having a backup plan after she's down is a problem. Throw in some grims, like fire arrow or ball of flame, and add some solid units in that like combat monk, highland born, samurai girl, the gowen starter team pretty much, I think would help a lot. Also like people said before, better ss lineup would be good too, like more sin or RFA + miracle fruit if you have trouble against bigs or returns, it all depends on what's all in your collection.
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby garcia1000 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:48 pm

I think it would be better to just use the Gowen starter, substitute two athira shins for the boomerang fighter, maybe add in a Ball of Flame and extra Fire Arrow somewhere, and put in Sergis and Assassin as SS.
"Pixies are all level 2, right? So why not try to drop cyclone on them?"
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby Pancakes » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:59 pm

yet another game decided by field removal. Despite whatever advise someone gives you, if you had managed to remove his cards while preventing your own cards from being removed. You could have won.
I can only use Bringer, BKR Jack, and returns cuz I'm a free player. It's my best shot at winning!
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby GonFreeces31 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:41 am

Pancakes wrote:dsfhaliieuhuierawledfjkhwafwjeiofheruighweluiawhnflksjdhfk


Yeah take Garcia's advice. A slightly modded gowen starter can get you to 1700RP, if not even higher! Mastering timing on an assassin (or salamander soldier) SS really really helps. And definitely use that axe man!
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby Metanoia » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:36 am

Thanks for all the tips everyone!

I have tryed to incorporate the ideas of more grims, "field wiping" and more front row, and have changed my file to this:

SS:
Dryad Soldier
Sergis
RFA
RFA
Witch Queen / Catherina

First row:
1 Exploding Spores
3 Feline Kin Fighter
3 Dual Axe Wielder
2 Athira Shin

Second row:
3 Alraune
3 Mercenary
1 God Lance / Estoma

Third row:
2 Salamander

Grims:
2 Dragon Breath
2 Miracle Fruit
1 Ball of Flame
1 Rapid Growth
1 Revolver King / Shelby (I know technically he's not really a Grim ;-))

I really feel "naked" without Der Freischutz or any other Defense counter, but I guess I'll have to try it.

Do you guys agree on sinlge copies of Estoma and Shelby? (I don't have multiples) or would I be better off with more Grims / one less grim and 3 other units?

I will of course also test myself and post some results after a while.
"Impossible" only means it has never been done before.
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby garcia1000 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:46 am

-1 Estoma -1 Shelby
+2 Fire Arrow

Alraune Row 2 -> Row 3
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Re: Beginner, help me learn? Mid Gowen vs. SP Denial Undead

Postby Pancakes » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:52 pm

GonFreeces31 wrote:
Pancakes wrote:dsfhaliieuhuierawledfjkhwafwjeiofheruighweluiawhnflksjdhfk


Yeah take Garcia's advice. A slightly modded gowen starter can get you to 1700RP, if not even higher! Mastering timing on an assassin (or salamander soldier) SS really really helps. And definitely use that axe man!


and then you say exactly what I said. Gowen starter is approx. 90% stronger when you get a successful assasination in. Field removal is 90% of this game, the rest is just filler. And you can't deny, if his unit hadn't been Merciless'd, the opponent would have been in much greater trouble even if all his cards and tactics had remained the same. He can tweak and tweak and tweak his cards, or he could keep them exactly the same but improve his focus on removing his opponent's field while retaining his own.

You can not like to hear me speak, but my advice is sound.
I can only use Bringer, BKR Jack, and returns cuz I'm a free player. It's my best shot at winning!
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