Sale of Individual Cards

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Romdeau » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:46 pm

I've forgotten how many times this has been tossed around on the forums, but my position on this solidified a long time ago.

The trading system has a 99.99% of never being implemented into Alteil-therefore we're reduced to 3 options.
1. Complain until it is implemented
2. Quit playing Alteil
3. Live with it and love the game

For a while, my attitude on this fit into category one, and then I realized how unfair it would be to the other wealthier players that had to spend bundles of cash to get the cards they currently have. I also realized high rarity cards does not mean instant win-it just means you're probably using a deck not a lot of other people are using.

Imagine what would happen if trading were implemented-we'd have a huge stagnation problem on our hands for the rest of this game's existence. Long live the Endless Night/Endless Morning/Big Blue/Variant of Dalos Deck! EVERYONE and their mother would be playing the same 5 or so decks over and over until death do us part. Trading is becoming much less attractive to me by the moment. Not to mention, I want the Nice, Hard Working, Japanese People to listen to us but they shouldn't cave into something as major as this.

Anyhow I don't wanna go on a tangent, so I hope you get my point from just this.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:00 pm

I dont like your idea Legend, not at all.
If more players would play, there would be decent chances for most to get their treasure battles and level up cards.

Your idea just makes it harder for the game to grow. Sure you shouldnt play all day, but how about 5 - 10 games / week in crest or florart?
If i would've done the same thing and only waited for gran to fall from heaven, i would have never managed to get to those lucky moments in which i crush even strong players and do the victory dance right in front of them.
;zagar

The main issue about this game is the lack of players and the 0-20/500 arenas. Why dont you also try to make suggestions that will get more players into the crest/florart? Seriously, i really want changes, but people like you really shouldn't get any changes.
There are so many browser games which are really worse and the real crap that you can find over the net, but they got popular due to a large amount of players. You can always find there few that start spending only because they want to be better than the rest, the sore losers. But those sore losers never start playing if there is a small playerbase.

This game has no invitation links, because its abusuable and such. But i bet people rather like to complain than to invite someone and teach them the basics.

If nobody contribues with anything to the game, then you can just quit it or hold your fingers crossed and hope for a miracle.

The trading system has ..

This isnt about any trading system.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Romdeau » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:36 pm

I believe this topic falls under it and my points are still applicable to this thread.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:17 pm

Romdeau wrote:I believe this topic falls under it and my points are still applicable to this thread.

It dosnt.
Trade = players get cards they want without spending
Individual Card Purchase = players get the cards they want for an amount of gran
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby LegendsEnd » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Peralisc2 wrote:I dont like your idea Legend, not at all.
If more players would play, there would be decent chances for most to get their treasure battles and level up cards.

Your idea just makes it harder for the game to grow. Sure you shouldnt play all day, but how about 5 - 10 games / week in crest or florart?
If i would've done the same thing and only waited for gran to fall from heaven, i would have never managed to get to those lucky moments in which i crush even strong players and do the victory dance right in front of them.
;zagar

The main issue about this game is the lack of players and the 0-20/500 arenas. Why dont you also try to make suggestions that will get more players into the crest/florart? Seriously, i really want changes, but people like you really shouldn't get any changes.
There are so many browser games which are really worse and the real crap that you can find over the net, but they got popular due to a large amount of players. You can always find there few that start spending only because they want to be better than the rest, the sore losers. But those sore losers never start playing if there is a small playerbase.

This game has no invitation links, because its abusuable and such. But i bet people rather like to complain than to invite someone and teach them the basics.

If nobody contribues with anything to the game, then you can just quit it or hold your fingers crossed and hope for a miracle.

The trading system has ..

This isnt about any trading system.


I'm all for change. I'm still chugging along with a modified starter using MM gran (lvl 3 in crest!). I was just saying it's better to not play than be frustrated. I've made tons of comments about how it should be easier for new players to get cards; raising their interest level via deck building (thus keeping new players and building the base), and being able to compete in Folrart. Truth of the matter is though, these thoughts have been shared by 70-80% of the forum and nothing can be done about it.

The Japanese side of Alteil simply can't allow cheaper cards or all their players would flock here for cheaper cards. And since the Japanese management has the final say in all major decisions here it seems, nothing will be done for a LONG time. It's also clear from lupos' post that the gap in power is going to be staying, so I simply agreed with lupos' sentiment that it's better to not play at the moment than be frustrated. Of course word of mouth about the game won't spread if everyone hates the current standards, so I'm also sure that the guys and gals behind Alteil aren't twiddling their fingers and praying to some higher power for everything to work out. I'm putting my trust in them to make Alteil viable in North America.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Peralisc2 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:54 pm

lupos didnt say not to play ... rather he encouraged players to value the cards they got a bit more
and the frustration ends soon enough, seriously i think it was worth rather to play than not to, even if it pissed me off that some people think $$ is skill, but after a while you manage to beat those from time to time even without spending + it also makes them (sometimes) buy more $$kill
you actualy support the game even without paying, by simply playing it!

and seriously what fun is there to grind, it just keeps the arenas as empty as possible
if people would stop having that attitude and continue playing once they are in florart, they would start winning a bit more than from MM + 1 game / week and other small reward events

why do you have to discourage playing? guess you are free to say "if you play without paying you are an idiot" around here ...
there should be more events that encourage playing rather than those that encourage not playing, something like "anyone who played 5 games/ day gets 7 random cards for this week" instead of double gran from MM >_>
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Logress » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:16 am

Trading is an interesting thing. Does it really let players get what they want without paying? I mean, to trade you need good cards. No one's going to trade for a starter card, right? Right now there are a bunch of ways to get free cards and gran, if we replaced that with trading, then everyone who wanted to trade would have to be able to buy at least a box or two.

The big advantage to trading, of course, is that if you buy three boxes and get three different rarity fives, you can trade them around to get three of one rarity five and field that. So basically, it lets people who pay get playable cards quicker, right? Basically. But if you get a rarity 4 other than Renally and try to trade for a Renally, how many people are going to take that trade? Not many except for the huge spenders who might have extras, and there won't be that many of those big spenders around to trade with who still have gaps in their collections. So if you want to build a deck that's off the meta you'll be doing it easy, but if you're out to build a deck to maximize your wins it won't be all that much better (Although it would make people more aggressive about beating the meta with non-meta decks, since it will be so much easier to trade for those cards.)

Let's review, what Alteil would be like with trading...

-Free players would be even more like second class citizens, not being able to trade.
-"Veteran" free players who've been around for a long time and slowly accumulated their cards may become extinct.
-People who buy a little will have a lot more options open to them. They may not find it much easier to build on-meta decks, though.
-People who want to have complete collections will find it A LOT easier. (note, as we have said many times, we recognize that it's too difficult even for a wealthy collector to get complete sets right now, and we have been working on it. As great as it is for our cashflow when someone gets really frustrated at having 3 of every card except one of his rarity 5's which he only has 2 of and flips out and buys 30 boxes trying to get that one last card, we understand if that happens every expansion our users' minds will eventually snap like twigs and they will hunt us down and kill us in some grusome way involving a bag of rusty nails, a . We have approval to do a Point Card system to alleviate this, and it will be implemented as soon as we can iron out the details -- before set 3, at least.)

So, as you can see there are both advantages and disadvantages to it. I asked a friend who had worked for both the biggest TCG's in the US how trading worked from the IP company's point of view last week and what he said kind of blew my mind. It's certainly not a change to take lightly.

Personally, I like the idea of trading. Why? Well, it's something that the users will do with each other that takes up a lot of their time, keeps their mind tuned to the game, keeps them logged in, keeps them coming back and doesn't require me to do anything... (do you have any idea how long it takes me to give out prizes, judge contests, retrieve battle data and check for cheating and all that for our countless events!?) But part of me remembers my Magic days where I bought pack after pack of cards thinking "it's okay, they have value, I can always trade them, and I can always sell them!" It always made me feel better about buying more and more... of course I never traded much or sold any of them and they are sitting in giant garbage bags in my closet now. But don't worry, any day now I'm going to sit down and organize them and sell them on e-bay. Yeah, that's it. Any day now...
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby LegendsEnd » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:08 am

Peralisc2 wrote:lupos didnt say not to play ... rather he encouraged players to value the cards they got a bit more
and the frustration ends soon enough, seriously i think it was worth rather to play than not to, even if it pissed me off that some people think $$ is skill, but after a while you manage to beat those from time to time even without spending + it also makes them (sometimes) buy more $$kill
you actualy support the game even without paying, by simply playing it!

and seriously what fun is there to grind, it just keeps the arenas as empty as possible
if people would stop having that attitude and continue playing once they are in florart, they would start winning a bit more than from MM + 1 game / week and other small reward events

why do you have to discourage playing? guess you are free to say "if you play without paying you are an idiot" around here ...
there should be more events that encourage playing rather than those that encourage not playing, something like "anyone who played 5 games/ day gets 7 random cards for this week" instead of double gran from MM >_>


The line I was agreeing to was:

lupos wrote:I'm not trying to pick on you specifically as you're not the first to have this sentiment but, if you don't like the challenge of trying to make due with the hand your dealt, then perhaps card games aren't your bag?


There's a frustrated player, and if he isn't having fun, he should find something else to pass time with. I don't see the benefit of forcing people to play. He obviously feels that his deck is stale, he's PLAYED it many times. So why play it more? Playing the same deck over and over and over and over OR play a different game? Pick up CoD4/Gears/Smash/LBP/GH3/RB2/etc. and play with some friends, or pick up an action/RPG game and enjoy the experience (Fallout 3/DMC4/etc.), or catch up on some shows (Dexter, Chuck, 24, House, Entourage, The Office, etc). There's so much to do, no one's going to play the same deck and lose all day over the alternatives.

"if people would stop having that attitude and continue playing once they are in florart, they would start winning a bit more" --- Yeah, if I played 100 games I'm bound to win a few. No one is going to play that many losing games and retain interest. If my record was 20/300, I would quit. I'm spending my time, to give other people treasure cards and experience. I've got better things to do for fun. But imagine someone starting with Refess, and playing to Folrart. What's he going to do? It's spend or lose. Coupled with the fact that the amount of gamers into TCG's is low, and the high price, it's no surprise that people are making threads on the forum instead of playing the game.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby darklogos » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:38 am

Lets look at some real issues.

The first is stale decks. Easy solution get rid of the starter deck system and let everyone be any sphere they want. This way you can change your deck long enough to find what fits you. If that is to much at least be able to pick 2 spheres to have access to their starters. This should give you enough flexablity through crest. If you can't progress pas that then yeah you need to find another game or go into chat and get advice. Its amazing the things you can do with a modified falkow starter.

The second issue is Reffess on average sucks outside of crest. Reffess got its key dyanmic nerfed which is willowisp and its been week since. The new ex Packs has reffess come out as winners against bigger and faster decks but don't expect those 2 cards to pull a win for you. The Reffess ex cards don't feel the holes in reffess expescially the need for more sp generation or sp drain. I've tested and tested and tested different stuff with reffess and it lacks on damage, control, and overall survivability. Its the worst sphere by far because of 1 card nerf. Thats sort of funny.

Most folks have no one to talk to when they loose a lot. Solution go to chat and talk to people. Being a trainer long enough I've learned that most peoples problem in the game is their opening and not looking at the other guys field. If you can fix those two issues then most players win/loss becomes better.

To few people for a bunch of treasure battles. Solution save gran and buy treasure battle potions. Sorry treasure battles really can't be messed with because if they increased in chance at 2-4 win streaks then you would either get A. Flooded with crappy cards. Or B. watch recycle prices tank or treasure cards be non-recyclable. The good free players can't afford that.

In all honesty i thought about trading for a long time. Because there is no subscription trading is going happen. If there was a subscription and no trading I wouldn't recomend this game to anyone. Sad to say if you are a below average player, like myself, you have few choices. You buy boxes, not packs, and more boxes until you get what you want or a foundation to work from. You get into chat and listen and you play test more then you play in crest and folrart. Oh you can do something else and play a game now and then to avoid frustrations. Your account will still be there.

I just play tested the gowen, falkow, and reffess ex packs and i'm a bit sad at how weak some of the cards are. Gowen got screwed hardcore but I finally got my salamander soldiers! Reffess and Falkow came out ahead, but flash palidin should have been a set one card because of how weak he is. Lawtia has just left me confused. Buying those cards didn't make me a god among players. All it did was give me flexablity for "potential meta changes" that's it. If I traded those cards they would be worth more then most four-five stars just based off of cost alone not even skill level. Roughrest would be worth a mint in Gold. I'm a pay player who looses a lot. So don't think that money will fix the situation for you. If you don't have your basics down when you leave crest even the weakest in folrart will curb stomp you no matter what your deck. Skill is better then money in this game. Money just gives you options. Discipline and skill will get you cards at a decent pace. Without discipline you can't be a free player.
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Re: Sale of Individual Cards

Postby Peralisc2 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:38 am

Legends, if you feel too that this game is not for you then just go on and chose one of those alternatives. Drop the this game if it bothers you to that extent.

20 / 300 in florart means you still have to learn a lot (that means VERY VERY VERY MUCH, no joke), not even better cards will help you. ;)
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