Casual Arena

User suggestions to improve the game

Casual Arena

Postby Seizan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:54 pm

Tired of seeing same decks over and over again? Bored to death with stale metagame? Can't compete with people spending thousands of dollars? Then support petition for Casual Arena!

Since there are several, let's call them "less inteligent", players who believe that everyone should play games their way (same boring netdecks with Dilate/Dio/Bringer/whatever that everyone else is using) allow me to introduce you to silent majority of computer games' players: casual player. First few quotes from the internet:
"Real casual players are enjoying the game and not giving a rat's behind about 'competing', they care about 'contributing', contributing to a fun environment based on a casually appropriate set of goals."
"The casual player is the guy who answers the question with "I want to have fun". (...) When something loses its appeal, they go and find something else to do. After all, it's just a game, right?"
As you can see, Alteil's current environment is hostile for casual players by design. The only arena where you can increase your level (which means free cards), win cards from Treasure Battles, earn gran by winning games and participate in events (with sole exception of free daily lotto) is ranked arena. It creates quite a few problems: people who don't care about competition are forced into it anyway; it attracts many Spikes; it discourages people who seek only fun. I believe there is simple solution for that: new arena designed with casual players in mind.

Basic rules:
1. No RP. This is place for fun, not competition.
2. No win-loss ratio displayed. Once again, keeping arena competition-free.
3. Treasure Battle card win condition: participate Because losing TB when goofing around with some half-complete idea for a deck is no fun.
4. New algorithm for weekly gran. In order to eliminate last reason for competition change weekly gran gain from min(10, 2*wins+1*draws-1*loses) to something like 10+1*games played.
Additional option: to discourage grinders/netdeckers no xp/FM would be awarded if either side surrenders before round 10. Example: if someone plays Return even if both sides agreed not to, unfair player get nothing.

That's pretty much it. 4(5) simple rules to create place to play for fun without any reason to grind. The best part? It already exist and requires only small modifications. It's called Training Arena. (BTW, have you ever noticed that even Single Player Arena sees more action?)
Duels in TA don't change RP, so all that would be required is small tweak in display. With another small fix you could simply blank win-loss info for all players in that arena. Only 3 changes are required to change it into Casual Arena: xp/FM for games, chance of TB and adding clock/forcing timeout-lose after some predefined period of time to deal with (rare but still possible) disconnections. As an additional bonus, it offers option to choose opponent randomly or play with friend. This way if you don't feel like facing another Falkow with Return spam, you could simply ask (it has built-in clearly visible chat!) if anyone who doesn't play it would be interested in game, and then create it and wait for that person to join. No longer players would be forced to face same few decks every time they feel like having few minutes of fun. People who (wrongly) believe that they have no chance against high level players could start games with level restrictions. And if anyone feels like facing random opponent, Training Arena already allows for that. Since there would be no RP all players would be matched instantly.

Additional modifications (from "optional but cool" category).
Because you can pick opponents it lowers difficulty of challenge (usually), so there should be xp penalty for doing so, for example regular xp for games created by players, +50% bonus for choosing random opponent (same bonus as open games in Folrart).
Community maintained banned/restricted list. Idea based on Magic: the Gathering Commander (previously Elder Dragon Highlander): since it's place for casual players, it would be simply based on gentelmen's agreement. That's where "no xp for surrender before round 10" idea comes in. Players could still use cards from that list (no hardcoded restriction), but it would be in their best interest not to/ask opponent if he allows them. This way if majority hates, let's say Ruuca and GM don't feel like nerfing her, she could be democratically voted on ban list. But if some players would disagree with that decision, they could use her and play against others who don't mind/don't find her OP/want a challenge. This way everyone is happy, number of "<cardname> is OP!" topics would be reduced to almost zero.

Most common argument against new arena is small playerbase. I believe this idea will attract/keep new players, since casual players are usually silent majority and if they don't find something fun, they simply go away. With Casual Arena instead of Training, old timers could teach new players and get regular rewards for playing. New players wouldn't be forced into competetive arena before they got hooked up and decide to spend some money.

I had this idea in my head for quite some time, so it's very possible I forgot about something.

Anyone who agrees, post your support/questions/ideas. Anyone who disagree, go back to grinding your Dilate/Bringer/whatever. :P Or, you know, leave some constructive criticism.
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby Interfectorexcrem » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:30 pm

FM should still be awarded, because it's hard enough as is to gather the amount you need.

We play rock paper scissors in folrart, i wish some of the rocks weren't the size of asteroids, none of the paper should be like an ocean that covers everything and none of the scissors should be like a deathray from the deathstar itself. The opposites are also there, the pebbles, the toilet napkins and the plastic knives.
Having all of that clash together is like having Barbie fight Godzilla. Pure lunacy.
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby GOSCAR » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:51 pm

OH look this thread again. Well inb4 lock.

So let's see what I like.

Basic rules:
1. No RP. This is place for fun, not competition.
2. No win-loss ratio displayed. Once again, keeping arena competition-free.


Things I don't like.

Everything else.

Things I hate.

Community maintained banned/restricted list.

Eww no.
3. Treasure Battle card win condition: participate Because losing TB when goofing around with some half-complete idea for a deck is no fun.
4. New algorithm for weekly gran. In order to eliminate last reason for competition change weekly gran gain from min(10, 2*wins+1*draws-1*loses) to something like 10+1*games played.

Cool on your marks, get set, BOT!
One does not play alteil the way they want. -Gon

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Re: Casual Arena

Postby Johnjo » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:45 am

dont we already have casual arena? tough its called training arena right now :o
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby wakka9ca » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:43 am

@Seizan: Casual = no prizes = training arena

In no TCG you can play casual and get prizes or rewards. It defeats the purpose of casual and leaves room for abuse.

If you want to play your fun file that badly, PM me and I can setup times where we can play in the training arena. I am constantly asking others to join me in training arena but no one wants.
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby Elliah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:50 am

wakka9ca wrote:I am constantly asking others to join me in training arena but no one wants.

:o
I would join you any time. But we might not be doing what you expect us to.

...

I mean I use training as a second chat room sometimes :oops: .
I decided to stop Alteil because it is no longer fun thanks to set 10 and what some people became; I gave my account so if you meet me it's not me.
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby wakka9ca » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:05 am

Elliah wrote:
wakka9ca wrote:I am constantly asking others to join me in training arena but no one wants.

:o
I would join you any time. But we might not be doing what you expect us to.

...

I mean I use training as a second chat room sometimes :oops: .


I'm fine with chatting too :P
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby Seizan » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:47 pm

GOSCAR wrote:Cool on your marks, get set, BOT!

Oh look, this guy again. Not sure if you ever played any other game, but there is very simple way to deal with botters: it's called BANHAMMER. How come every other game in existence can simply ban botters, but Alteil needs special countermeasures and creating obstacles for normal players? Removing FM from MM was mistake, proper solution is to warn and then ban users who use bots. Simple as that. You know, like every other developer in every other game does. :roll:

wakka9ca wrote:In no TCG you can play casual and get prizes or rewards. It defeats the purpose of casual and leaves room for abuse.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. So terribly wrong. In MtG it's called Friday Night Magic. From that page: "Prize cards are available to participants in other ways than just to the winners."
Ever heard of War Metal Tyrant? Playerbase about twenty times (if not more) bigger than Alteil. About 90% of content is tied to non-competetive play. In fact, most of best cards you get from completing single player missions.
Most games give rewards for casual play, because majority of players are casual. Have you ever thought why this game has so tiny playerbase and extremely poor retention rate? Because it's so highly competetive without any reason. Also, the only "purpose" of casual is having fun. How exactly this excludes getting rewards?
There is non-casual play in Alteil. It's called tournaments. They give rewards for winning. Cards you get from lvl-up/TB have nothing to do with being competetive. They are simply rewards for long time play. I see no reason to tie them exclusively to competetive play.

How about this analogy: in Diablo 2 I can roam freely on server, kill monsters and gain xp without participating in PvP. What you're suggesting is: I shouldn't be able to get any xp from PvE, only from PvP. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Give me one good reason why non-competetive play in Alteil shouldn't give xp. I can't think of any other game where people playing for fun are penalized as much as here.
For example I'd love to hear why setting up bot who constantly joins and gives up games in Folrart should reward xp, but casual play in transformed Training Arena should not.

Short version: currently both grinders and casual players earn xp. Why shouldn't casual-only arena reward xp?
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby wakka9ca » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:53 pm

In MTG, you have to PAY for your cards. In Alteil, it can be free. Major differentiation. Also, a TCG is not a RPG.

In your model, no one will ever need to pay for this game. It might work if this was opensource or subscription-based.

The fact that you are not willing to play in the current training arena says something about your attitude.

The question is : are you willing to play casual without rewards?

My answer is yes. What is yours? I can deduce that your previous reply indicate a "no"?

About FNM:

Friday Night Magic Rules

* 1st and 2nd place receive one prize card each.
* Door prize: The tournament organizer will randomly award the remaining two prize cards to two players that did not place first or second.
* FNM events have a Planeswalker Points multiplier of 1x. For more information about Planeswalker Points, visit this page.
* Stores do not have to run FNM tournaments each week, so contact the store in advance be sure they are running FNM on the date you're planning on visiting.
* All 4 prize cards associated with each Friday Night Magic event must be awarded to the players.
* Friday Night Magic events can only be run on Fridays.

If you think that's as "casual" as you think, think again. It's more like your typical Character Saturday Tournament.
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Re: Casual Arena

Postby fargone » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 pm

Let's make a casual arena, then troll it with meta files. After all we dont have enough players to support two main arenas and people who play top files still want to play.

I guess the points of variety and just playing for fun are moot points when you are trying to break down the only arena we have atm into smaller parts - you realise that will likely reduce the variety, not increase it, don't you? In realising this, can you also accept that your real complaint is they aren't giving you enough?

I also have to add that playing for fun doesn't mean they keep rewarding you, it means you are playing for fun. Since this is already set up with te training arena, I guess you are just whining with no real expected outcome.
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fargone wrote:I realise this is completely off topic, but Icy deserves the limelight more than others. Some of whom dominate the forums with their endless posts.


What, I make legit points too...
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