Return Mechanic Counters

User suggestions to improve the game

Return Mechanic Counters

Postby angelspawns » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:54 pm

As the title says. Come up with your idea of viable counters and place them here.
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For years this mechanic is on the very top of RP files. 2200+RP and 149 winstreaks... this mechanic is constantly on the verge of breaking the game. Falkow has the highest showing in top RP files, yet lowest showing in diversity! This should ring all alarm bells at the Alteil office. I shouldn't have to tell you how unhealthy those statistics are to a collecting game AND gameplay.

Not only is it EXTREMELY boring to face (OR play) a 1 trick pony, this trick been holding back Falkow sphere design aswell.
Units must remain pushovers. Field positioning, range alteration, agi manipulation, engage, grimcount... the moment a good addition is made to these types of play, the Return Mechanic will break the OPness lvl over 9000. (eggagerated, but you get the idea) From a designers perspective it's just horrible. For players it's just annoying to revert back to doing the same thing to play competitive.

And here's the thing: Nobody likes one trick ponies... bores the crap out of you after a while. Only during grindevents you see an uprise in Falkow. Isn't it time this card/mechanic gets some decent counters to hold it in check? How something that's constantly proving to break 2000RP barriers hasn't even been considered on the nerf list, while a card like ExLap breaking 1900RP IS, is beyond me... but it's long overdue.

Fix it please. Bring more counters into the game that are viable to play in Folrart. (COUNTERS are not a desperate man's gamble on a 50/50 coinflip! A true COUNTER has high succesrate to stop an effect from happening.)
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My ideas:

- "StartSkill = This (Grim Immune)unit is in row 1-2-3: All Grims are locked untill the end of next turn. Close cancels this effect"
- "AutoSkill = Conditional: This (Grim Immune)unit is in row 1-2-3. All units cannot be effected by Grims next turn."
- "Unit Openskill = Send all Grims to cemetery. Startskill = Return 1 Grim from Rival Iczer cemetery to the cardfile."
- "Unit Openskill = All Grims are locked till end next turn. Auto = 2 Target units can't be effected by 'send to cardfile' effects till end of next turn."
- "1LP SS = 40Dmg + No grims can be set for 5 Turns" (yes, this is a buff on that pixy SS)
- "1LP SS = Engage 1 unit till end of next turn + No grim can be set for 3 Turns"
- "2LP SS = You get +1SP + No grims can be set for 5 Turns"
- "??.... make your suggestions?"
Last edited by angelspawns on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby GOSCAR » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:01 pm

My idea is giving a BKR kinda effect.

Like having Lavande with an opening that gives all friendly units LV+1 while on the field from now on. Cumulative of course.
One does not play alteil the way they want. -Gon

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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby hexagram » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:08 pm

viable counter - pixy- anti falkow grim open

use in pixy files/ splash in other gowen/ multishpere files.

falkow hate

character hate

falkow sphere hate

sp drain

sp generation e.g. +3sp soul skill - even if they return you have sp advantage.

pure damage

op beats op

....
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby GonFreeces31 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:19 pm

SP Drain (Shade, Exorcist, Gafc), SP Gen (Judie, Miffyre). Building pure 100% counters would be terrible for the game because the 'countered' cards would lose 100% of the time (like if fruit always acted before other grims). Then no one would play those given cards if there was such a cheap easy way to beat an entire sphere.
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby angelspawns » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Soooo many things get hard countered... i have no idea what game you play Gon, but you're asking special treatment here. :?

Aivault can get '100% countered' by Afel. And then Afel gets '100% countered' by Aliria, and then Aliria gets '100% countered' by Life Conversion, Life Conversion gets '100% countered' by Refugees, Refugees gets '100% countered' etc. Undeads get '100% countered' by Raste, Raste gets '100% countered' by Dark Confederation... even polarized opposites have hard counters against eachother.

The fight is not over when you can't play one card, Gon. You fight back with other options. If you can't return, you engage, slow down, kill etc! But if you feel Falkow lacks in those other options, then well... i just explained to you why that is!! It's Return Mechanics doing more harm then good for the game & gameplay. You can't see it because you like this idea of having 1 OP trick that can instantly deal with any lvl1~3 problem when it arises. Is it possible that this line of thought is maybe a little bit ... biased? When everything else reaping easy 2000RP is allowed to be hard countered or nerfed?

You should ask for better options instead of keeping this 1 trick pony in check.

(@ hexagram. How about a card that instantly wins you the game? I'm sure that pixies and SS's balance it all out... ;))


You can try and defend something, but statistics aren't on your side. If you're not ready to agree on these suggestions, atleast acknowledge the facts it's been up there as most populair mechanic in +2000RP range. Then take a long good look at yourself before you respond back here. ;)
Last edited by angelspawns on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby LoneKnight » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:21 pm

Fruit is a terrible counter. It only protects 2 units and gets removed upon death. If your opponent called it and played, say, a unit instead of return, you just wastred a turn and 2 SP on basically nothing. It could go 100% and it wouldn't stop anyone from packing returns.

But it may stop people from suggesting terrible fixes and general **** about return so that'd be good at least.
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby GOSCAR » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:23 pm

Yeah Gon believe it or not there are other control mechanics in Falkow. Just becuase Return is it's most broken one, doesn't mean the other ones aren't good too.
One does not play alteil the way they want. -Gon

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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby NitroDino » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:41 pm

Well I would rather have a grim like:
lvl1
All friendly units are not affected by open skills until the end of the next turn. You get SP+1.

So you can counter open spam and maybe if you go first a possible return or even other grims.

You know guys there is a SS that locks grims for 5 turns:
https://alteil-login.gamepotusa.com/car ... php?id=547

And I don't think there is any need for return counters, every tribe has a grimbane unit. The real problem are not return mechanics on grims, return skills on units are the biggest problem. Anything that gives you heavy SP advantage should be nerfed.
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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby GOSCAR » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:47 pm

NitroDino wrote:Well I would rather have a grim like:
lvl1
[Conditional use / Falkow level=0] All friendly units are not affected by open skills until the end of the next turn. You get SP+1.

So you can counter open spam and maybe if you go first a possible return or even other grims.

Fixed!

Also Refess Grim banner sucks.
One does not play alteil the way they want. -Gon

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Re: Return Mechanic Counters

Postby monkeysmiles11 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:03 pm

Grim returns are fine, its when they combine units like dio and ss returns along with the grims that get annoying. Throwing a sp generator card in a rush file works most times for me, they end up using all there returns and I can still pump out units.
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