Demanding Emana Nerf

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby angolmois » Tue May 01, 2012 3:36 am

I suggest we boycott Alteil until they nerf her. That will make them work faster.
angolmois
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:04 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby Haqua » Tue May 01, 2012 2:30 pm

Her pinpoint would be better if it was Emana's attack and not the Targets', if her start skill had rng limitations or something. It can literally single handily kill off Lawtia because of the sacrificial High atk, low hp Style. Also -5 agi, is seriously overkill, Refess will sure lose to it especially since Emana has complete and total disregard for this thing called rng. I would go into Gowen but then, it's like arguing rocks vs a hard spot.

Summary :
She does way too much for her Level, she's the level 3 version of Toromea who despite being OP still doesn't beat this
She benefits the player way too much without any bloody drawback,
Why the heck is she such a beefy support?
Image
User avatar
Haqua
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:31 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby Dean » Wed May 02, 2012 2:04 pm

still not ban. Wake up GM!
Dean
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:16 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby Galandros » Wed May 02, 2012 4:21 pm

Dio & Emana are literally the most boring cards in this game.
They alter the play environment, in a negative way. For instance, during the warm-up tourney, I decided to play around with the file for once.
I got paired up into a mirror match and literally fell asleep in my chair at 2pm and was not sleep deprived. It was so exciting!
I'll quote a friend of mine who used to run high level events for a gaming company. "You errata a card once, if it still proves to be troublesome you ban it."

Now banning should not be the way Alteil ever goes, since it's a digital game in lieu of banning, you rewrite the card.
If these cards are not reflavored I will suggest some of the following ideas to tone down the card

Emana
1. Change the start skill so that she switches agility with another unit.
2. The revive skill: Only allow this to work on Mermaids. If you're going to keep it on all units, she needs to be more fragile (ie -10 HP), and maybe only allow up to two random units to revive.
3. Action Skill - It should just be completely reflavored. If you want to go the Mermaid theme base the damage on # of Mermaids on your side of the field (it should still cost 1 SP at least). If you try to keep it in it's current version do the following: cost it to 2 SP and randomize it. Get rid of the heal.


Dio
1. HP ---> 20 hp (Falkow has other level 3's with 20 HP ala Femiel, if any level 3 deserves 20 hp, it's this unit).
2. Action Skill - Cost this to 3 Sp (this skill should cost more than your normal SP gain in a turn. It makes level 3's an even trade, level 2's an sp loss and constricts the DEFS even more due to owl sage). If you want to kick this ability ever harder, make it to where your opponent chooses which of their engaged units is returned.
All-teal!!!!!!
User avatar
Galandros
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:24 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby AngelicDeath » Thu May 03, 2012 8:30 am

Galandros,

I like your suggestions. I am on board with most that Emana needs to be tamed as well as Dio and return. There are cards from other spheres that need a look as well but for me these stand out the most.

The type of play they induce is counterproductive in terms of fun. I do not mind losing as much in a close and fought out match where each side is using unit combinations and killing each other's units etc. It is so f'n boring to just have all your units returned to the card file with a combination of emana and rasam ss with Dio support etc.

Anytime a unit has a special skill whatever it is - that skill in terms of cost and effect should be weighed against the unit/ character it is on in terms of their base stats. There should be a system in place and the cards should strictly adhere to the system.

I believe that 95 % of Alteil cards actually fall within this realm. It is the cards that lie outside this power center ( like 2 standard deviations from the mean) that cause the most trouble and need to be dealt with in a timely fashion......

AD
Nought's had, all's spent, Where our desire is got without content;'Tis safer to be that which we destroy Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Ne Obliviscaris
User avatar
AngelicDeath
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby sunbunman » Thu May 03, 2012 3:55 pm

Must we turn every nerf thread into a dion/return is op thread?

I like the 1 sp action and the turn start to auto suggestions...
Falkow {Water | Fluidity = Elusion} ∈ Win
User avatar
sunbunman
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:27 am

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby Anima13 » Fri May 04, 2012 1:14 am

I absloutly can understand that ppl want to nerf dio and emana, but please then discuss also
a, WHY they have to be that strong at all / what is the reason those mechanisms are introduced at all (no offense but I did not really saw any serious effort to understand/explore the thoughts of the designers by the community till now)
b, Discuss with context of the other OP cards (or anti falkow cards) in other spheres and how you are going to nerf those because no way can you do this with falkow only sorry to say this
c, how you are going to play those falkow rushes without these units which are all stomped by the huge dg potential currently existing in game and autoloosing if they do not include certain cards


Please get rid of the subjective focusing on certain cards and try to access the issue more holoistic, more systematic.
User avatar
Anima13
 
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 am
Location: somewhere over the rainbow

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby GOSCAR » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 am

Yeah we could discuss (not like there are any more threads that talk about them both) or we could just nerf them both to hell for being too strong.
One does not play alteil the way they want. -Gon

False Slash- Rom
User avatar
GOSCAR
 
Posts: 2038
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:34 pm
Location: NJ

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby AngelicDeath » Fri May 04, 2012 9:30 am

Anima,

I like your thought process. Every action undertaken by the game designers and balance team should be carried out with that in mind. However, often times it seems that cards are just pushed out the door. Case in point is the last 2 EX cards. They are not so different from their A2 cousins (I did not see them as ex in A1). It is quite reasonable to say that they are not made for our version of Alteil but adapted to fit our game. That being the case 90% of Alteil.jp cards could fit the bill with small tweaks yet our GM's see fit to reinvent the wheel each set.

i have alot questions when it comes to alot of the cards and their designs. For instance why have lv 1 combat support ona range 3 unit? You will rarely maximize the unit's potential. Why does chaos form Galdirea have range 5? seriously, how often do you Have 2 frontline blockers for him? Crest greatsword and crest mind soldiers both have 30 stat pts above their base levels yet their close skills return 2 and 1 cards from opponents cemetery respectively. Why the difference?

When you look hard at Emana you should ask yourself, What is her auto skill worth in terms of stats/sp and what her start skill is worth in stats/sp and what her action skill is worth in terms of stats/ sp and make the card. She effectively has no drawback that i can see yet has 3 great skills at minimal cost in terms of unit strength and or sp cost.

Cheers,
AD
Nought's had, all's spent, Where our desire is got without content;'Tis safer to be that which we destroy Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy.

Ne Obliviscaris
User avatar
AngelicDeath
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Demanding Emana Nerf

Postby Callonia » Fri May 04, 2012 4:04 pm

AngelicDeath wrote:i have alot questions when it comes to alot of the cards and their designs. For instance why have lv 1 combat support ona range 3 unit? You will rarely maximize the unit's potential.
Thats when you put it on the front row. Can be used to sac for ss trigger. And that unit can snipe backrow support units by luck.


Why does chaos form Galdirea have range 5? seriously, how often do you Have 2 frontline blockers for him?
Because he's a wizard. They're known for hiding in faraway places and tossing out teh spells.

Crest greatsword and crest mind soldiers both have 30 stat pts above their base levels yet their close skills return 2 and 1 cards from opponents cemetery respectively. Why the difference?
That's why they return the cards from opponent's cem. They'll be too op otherwise. I've had games where those two guys blitzkrieged the opening phase and killed like six cards or so with just one and two of them then they go and die into cem to make that cem retrival hurt you less, its a drawback. A genuine drawback in exchange for being op.

Emana suffer no such drawback, therefore not balanced.

User avatar
Callonia
 
Posts: 4774
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:49 am

PreviousNext

Return to Safiria's Planning Bureau

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest