Petition to make Folrart Mage level 4

[Pikeru]

To be fair, this topic probably was never about Folrart Mage from the beginning. Just another not so subtle mentioning of Return's imbalance, although the choice of unit for this example unfortunately happens to be one of the very few that enjoy getting Returned making the point sadly moot in this case. I for one would happen to enjoy going into a deeper and perhaps more specific discussion of balancing factors. It's a rather important matter and deserves points of view from as many angles as possible.

[ChiYoung]

This topic was started as a way to increase the viability of refess-mid files by introducing a re-usable pinpoint (Magic Bolt) that acts before action phase (Folrart Charge Knight), indirectly nerfing control files (Urgrant, Emana), which I believe are A. difficult for new players to play against, and B. bad for the game, because they lead to stale gameplay.

Please, don't assume that every thread is a generic bash-fest made by trolls.

[asxlen64]

wow even if you feel that way, again as i said before, it aint going to be change, EVER

[Nehless]

I didn't read the majority of the topic but...

I read the topic title and am inclined to say...

Dp Not Change Folrart Mage

[angelspawns]

I think we brought up an quite interesting discussion here. There's alot of ideas about balance from different point of views.
Even though i probably voiced mine about Refess (to) loud enough, it's an important discussion that has to be held to better understand choices that've been made.
We could evolve into a clearer understanding atleast about what's considered 'balanced'. Maybe even change our views.

I do see global buffers in a different perspective now. I just don't agree with their balancing aproach, scattering pre-emptive nerfs throughout the units/sphere they could possibly team up with. PreNerfing units on their potential to get +10~30 statpoints added (in team effort), while giving NO penalty on units that instant kill is judging with different standards.


Things used to balance Skills are SP cost & Stat Penalties. But powercreep stopped SP cost from being a balancing factor loooong ago. Current cost and efficiency is crooked:
- Atkx2 Slash is 0~1SP, vs. Normal Slash 2SP.
- Set Target HP=0 costs 1SP, vs. ShieldBreaker Random 1SP.

To balance things again, Alteil can do 2 things IMO:
1.) Take the Stat reduction route:
The Buffs FolrartCaptain gives out should be nerfed on FolrartCaptain Stats, not Mr.ShieldKnight. ExLap buffs should be nerfed on ExLap Stats, not on FolrartHammer. And Skills like Set HP=0/Atkx2/DoubleAttack/etc. should be counted into that units Stats aswell.
2.) Take the SP cost route.
The Buffs FolrartCaptain gives out should be paid by FolrartCaptain SP cost. ExLap buffs should be paid by ExLap SP cost. And Skills like Set HP=0/Atkx2/DoubleAttack/etc. should have their SP cost doubled compared to their less efficient counterparts.


And yes, i'm ignoring Icy here for the sake of having a "meaningfull" (but perhaps off-topic) discussion.

[gadu]

I do see global buffers in a different perspective now. I just don't agree with their balancing aproach, scattering pre-emptive nerfs throughout the units/sphere they could possibly team up with. PreNerfing units on their potential to get +10~30 statpoints added (in team effort), while giving NO penalty on units that instant kill is judging with different standards.

1.) Take the Stat reduction route:

The Buffs FolrartCaptain gives out should be nerfed on FolrartCaptain Stats, not Mr.ShieldKnight. ExLap buffs should be nerfed on ExLap Stats, not on FolrartHammer. And Skills like Set HP=0/Atkx2/DoubleAttack/etc. should be counted into that units Stats aswell.

2.) Take the SP cost route.

The Buffs FolrartCaptain gives out should be paid by FolrartCaptain SP cost. ExLap buffs should be paid by ExLap SP cost. And Skills like Set HP=0/Atkx2/DoubleAttack/etc. should have their SP cost doubled compared to their less efficient counterparts.

I found this insightful and I think the best example is the Mermaid tribe (not including Emana and Harpist since they will deservingly be going to hell soon).

Without Metia buff, Mermaids could rarely win a match on their own against any decent file. Deep ones are worse, having Falkow stats and Refess Agi in additon to requiring dead mermaids to operate.

On the other hand, if you get your field set up, you can get very strong units. I'm not sure what to make of the balancing approach or pre-emptive nerfs.

EDIT:

For example, what if all Merms and Deeps got 1 AGI stat added and Metia Buff gave 1 AGI? Suddenly, the whole tribe becomes a lot better (and you basically have a Falkow Mitz which is unexciting for diversity).

[Icyman2]

If you want buffs on deep ones, we need nerfs on cath justice owl open.

[AquasFire2]

Well if we are talking deep ones this is my opinion. They need more field manipulating cards.That are not grims deep ones dont have room for grims really.They need more control units and they need to be faster.

[Icyman2]

Well if we are talking deep ones this is my opinion. They need more field manipulating cards.That are not grims deep ones dont have room for grims really.They need more control units and they need to be faster.

You don't have shecas and you don't have metia so you can't give your full opinion. A full field of them is super scary. It beats a full field of command dolls for example. I've only won against the justice miffy start using vonderclone (hitting 6 units :O).

[AquasFire2]

Im just saying a lot there basic units are not really good. so i think a few field control techniques would be a good benefit for them.