Remove Bog's Open lock

User suggestions to improve the game

Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby Callonia » Mon May 28, 2012 7:13 pm

Anima13 wrote:
ITs because they play them and while they play they see the current state of the meta which has been evolving with more and more strong units and mechanisms, and suddenly feel that those nerfes while being justified in the old circumstanses, aren't necessary justified in todays environment.


So Falkow is completely fine while there's this whole sphere that is still suffering even today called refess. From low lvl rush to bigs, nothing is really that viable.

Refess suffer through aribatary conditionals and restrictions I don't see why other spheres isn't not allowed to suffer the conditionals like refess does.

And, a single hit from bog wyvern on rubens = 10 hp left and rubens counter for 10 damage. Go Go Tanks! Oh and Rubens return itself if it is left unmolested while bog wyvern can stay on field, no arbitary time limit before it returns it self opening ur field up for a possible blitz. Sorry but Bog Wyvern stays nerfed. Its a lvl 6 unit that hits two random units for 90 damage in range and have 70 hp and 4 agility to boot while Zagar 5* one have 75 hp and 10 def meaning it can be oneshot by bog wyvern. Only Shadow Spirit can stand up to the abuse Bog wyvern dishes out And its at agility 2 meaning it will be just two shot instead of one shot because it'll have 50 hp left over, an exceedingly easy hp for falkow to kill with follow up unit and if it was to somehow withstand two hits, it will kill itself because of its arbitrary conditional of taking 5 damage per surviving enemy unit that's right, It kills itself for doing it's job. Its almost like, they don't want refess units to do the job they're designed for. And Alteil team go to amazing lengths to make sure refess units die all the time.

Alteil team needs to do moar nerfs or just buff more units. But, bog wyvern can't get buffed, because it was better in the past and it was op, and the fact there is power creep is no justification for unnerfing a op card. There was decks that relied on rushing bog wyverns out as early as possible and lock down the whole enemy file by forcing them to revive or lose as much soul skills as possible before real units come out. Its a bruiser. Unnerf BOg wyvern, and its a early unit opener again. And lvl 2 rush rule the day again and oh fierte/ random removal ss deck rule day again. Basically Op spam moar. And with this, i am done with this farce of a topic.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby Icyglare » Mon May 28, 2012 7:43 pm

Sunbun, if you mind me asking, why do you want to remove his open lock? What game(s) causes you to say this?
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby ErnnLaties » Mon May 28, 2012 8:06 pm

yeah.. NO! bog was way too uber pre nerf. Have you ever faced Kazama`s mid blue of lame? he super gens sp then drops down Vonderam with Bog like early game, and you just cry after that.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby VertuHonagan » Mon May 28, 2012 10:59 pm

To be honest I could see him losing his open lock but keeping the attack lock. It would help to make him decently useful. Also in my opinion, I'd rather face early bog wyverns than return spam any day. Bog wyvern I can handle. Return spam not so much.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby sunbunman » Tue May 29, 2012 1:49 am

Callonia wrote:Bog wyvern is very uber, it's nerfed for a good reason. 1-2 bog wyverns was soloing whole files.

And do you even know he used to have max hp of 90.

And his open lock used to only lock only like 5 cards or less? And there was no locking of cards on attacking so you could easily drop two bog wyverns on field plus regus monk of lame and kill 6 units every turn. Sorry but, with units that powerful falkow don't need returns. Oh and they was also spamming returns on the top of that.


Note: the alternative i proposed for bog open, -3 falk on open and no1s gonna be double dropping bog or floowing it up with sorc monk

Also i said nothing about 90 hp bog, nor do i care for it

Icyglare wrote:Sunbun, if you mind me asking, why do you want to remove his open lock? What game(s) causes you to say this?


Dilate + A-Bomb vs Durendal + Bog, the wrath I needed to win got locked out, so ended up w8ing about 10 turns for a draw >_>

ErnnLaties wrote:yeah.. NO! bog was way too uber pre nerf. Have you ever faced Kazama`s mid blue of lame? he super gens sp then drops down Vonderam with Bog like early game, and you just cry after that.


Times have moved on, there're solutions for such files now


And every 1 please note that I've said only the open and not the attack, so the file still gets locked out the second u click the attack option.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby ayman » Tue May 29, 2012 2:49 am

If we need to adjust old cards into new meta, y dont we start with Djinn and Efreet they are way older and wayyyyy useless? (and both lvl6s)
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby GOSCAR » Tue May 29, 2012 4:23 am

sunbunman wrote:
Icyglare wrote:Sunbun, if you mind me asking, why do you want to remove his open lock? What game(s) causes you to say this?


Dilate + A-Bomb vs Durendal + Bog, the wrath I needed to win got locked out, so ended up w8ing about 10 turns for a draw >_>

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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby methebest » Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 am

if we nerf the curent op cards making him look bad then he wont look bad.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby NitroDino » Tue May 29, 2012 9:16 am

Bog Wyvern is a lvl6 unit, with a total of 22 stat points. Normal for lvl6 is 18 points, so it has 4 stat points more then normal lvl6 units. To balance out the 4 stat points he has an open that locks cards. The same applies for his trait, you can count his trait as additional +9 stat points because of the double attack, because of that he has the negative lock effect to balance things out.

Bog Wyvern is fine in his current form, but the amount of turns your cards are locked and the number of cards is probably a subjective decision.
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Re: Remove Bog's Open lock

Postby Anima13 » Tue May 29, 2012 1:30 pm

Callonia wrote:
Anima13 wrote:
ITs because they play them and while they play they see the current state of the meta which has been evolving with more and more strong units and mechanisms, and suddenly feel that those nerfes while being justified in the old circumstanses, aren't necessary justified in todays environment.


So Falkow is completely fine while there's this whole sphere that is still suffering even today called refess. From low lvl rush to bigs, nothing is really that viable.

Refess suffer through aribatary conditionals and restrictions I don't see why other spheres isn't not allowed to suffer the conditionals like refess does.

And, a single hit from bog wyvern on rubens = 10 hp left and rubens counter for 10 damage. Go Go Tanks! Oh and Rubens return itself if it is left unmolested while bog wyvern can stay on field, no arbitary time limit before it returns it self opening ur field up for a possible blitz. Sorry but Bog Wyvern stays nerfed. Its a lvl 6 unit that hits two random units for 90 damage in range and have 70 hp and 4 agility to boot while Zagar 5* one have 75 hp and 10 def meaning it can be oneshot by bog wyvern. Only Shadow Spirit can stand up to the abuse Bog wyvern dishes out And its at agility 2 meaning it will be just two shot instead of one shot because it'll have 50 hp left over, an exceedingly easy hp for falkow to kill with follow up unit and if it was to somehow withstand two hits, it will kill itself because of its arbitrary conditional of taking 5 damage per surviving enemy unit that's right, It kills itself for doing it's job. Its almost like, they don't want refess units to do the job they're designed for. And Alteil team go to amazing lengths to make sure refess units die all the time.

Alteil team needs to do moar nerfs or just buff more units. But, bog wyvern can't get buffed, because it was better in the past and it was op, and the fact there is power creep is no justification for unnerfing a op card. There was decks that relied on rushing bog wyverns out as early as possible and lock down the whole enemy file by forcing them to revive or lose as much soul skills as possible before real units come out. Its a bruiser. Unnerf BOg wyvern, and its a early unit opener again. And lvl 2 rush rule the day again and oh fierte/ random removal ss deck rule day again. Basically Op spam moar. And with this, i am done with this farce of a topic.


I think I got slightly misunderstood. I understand its hard to read my posts especially if they attempt to take a look on opposing positions. I dont state that bog should be unnerfed, I collect the arguments for and against and try to answer why ppl could come to this idea of unnering him. Would you mind to read my whole post again? :D
So far I see right wo the open he was something like prenerf ruuca recently: an endgame unit ppl used early and owned everything with.
And if we are already at the discussion refess vs falkow, I find it would be appropiate to compare the big decks and the cards they have avaible as a whole and not just single units.
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