Nerf requests for set 11

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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby angelspawns » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:41 am

I was already removing the Silverion example because i don't want to make this into a refess vs. falkow debate, or 'this unit' vs. Ryu. It's the rules and standards used for balancing i want to discuss. I used Silverion because it's obvious Alteil gives -1 negative point value to a +30Atk increase, but i can see how actual examples can deviate from the main point.

By just looking at the additional statpoints all the Skills give Ruy, it's enough to tell you it's to much for 0 penalty. (penalty in Alteil = stat reductions, SP cost, or statuseffects like engaging)
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby AznApple2 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:56 am

angelspawns wrote:MageSoldiers are fine, except 1: Ryu.

Lvl4's should have 140 statpoints (minus penalties). Ryu's double attack and debuffing gives him statpoints far above the powercurve.
It's Alteil's failure to sometimes overlook Skills, when clearly Ryu has ATLEAST another +30 Attack points added to him.

Demongod can say what he wants, but that's a fact. It's also a shamefull fact Alteil team doesn't know how to balance, since penalties for Skills are often overlooked and by 'feeling'. By not taking this into account on Ryu it inevitably became unbalanced. What is there to denie about?


I definitely see what you're saying. Ryu's double attack does indeed put him somewhat above the curve on a vanilla level 4 unit. However, by this point, vanilla units absolutely suck. In other words, unless it's marduk or urgrant, guardian, BKR, Francis, or some other very unique level 4 unit, it's not played at all. The other drawback to Ryu's attack is that A) he can overkill B) he gets penalized by defense twice.

He's definitely noteworthy, but IMO he's yet another agile beatstick. Nothing particularly scary about him unless you allow the Mage Soldier player to combo him up with Balmoa, Anttila, spam returns, etc..., which is all very avoidable.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby Ethikx » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:21 pm

It's something that could become a major problem IF mage soldiers get more support but let's face it. Mage soldiers kinda suck, and he is the only thing that makes people want to use them.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby Callonia » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:49 pm

If it oneshots rubens with a single start skill buff, it needs a beatdown with nerf stick. Period.

120 attack vs 100 hp. I demand nurfs on that mage soldier thingie.


And Rubens have bazillions of penalities compared to mage soldiers.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby Callonia » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Proxies and moxies and soul skills makes your SP argument irrelevant and silly.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby AznApple2 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:20 pm

Callonia wrote:Proxies and moxies and soul skills makes your SP argument irrelevant and silly.


Uhh...then can you please explain the success of EN, Primclone, Mirelia, Dion control before it turned to Dilate control, Urgrant, and so many other files that focus around resource denial? Oh right--because SP matters.

Always has.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby hexagram » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:11 am

mermaid harpist is so op it is not even funny and I was fighting against it with op set 11 stuff. They should atleast make it so it cannot return itself from field to hand as this can lead to infinite free revivals- or send the card to the grave or remove from game instead of hand. Still stron but more balanced.It is beatable but you have to pack certain counters to even stand a chance. For many files it will be impossible to beat. Gowen and refuss is auto win the opponent said- endurance win.

It is a lvl 2 card so can be spamed every turn and has the power to revive a field of 8 cards for 0sp (2sp return mermaid harpist). any is many power lvls above any revival card and is falkow !!!. Someone up there likes mermaids. No wonder japan alteil is pay to win with op combos like that.

check the following replay. Url works fine for me just click it

https://alteil-login.gamepotusa.com/rep ... de5c031f89

he used mermaid harpist 10+ times - just spamming it!!! giving him an equivalent file of 100+ cards and makeing all his units effectively free revivers. Alteast with annorose you lose lp so if you kill it enough the other person will lose but I killed his mermaids and and field countless times with no result. Their lp is basically kindof untouchable if they choose to.

The key problem is mermaid harpist open is too cheap and too powerful - unlimited free revives - even after lots of field wipes. File cannot lose from field wipes. No reason not to spam harpist every turn and return itself.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In some ways the matchup was kind of balanced as it was op vs op but I think the opposing file was much too strong - almost unbeatable. It may have just been a bad matchup but I very much doubt it.
Last edited by hexagram on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby WhiteDragon2 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:28 am

hexagram, your URL doesn't work, though I agree that harpist is OP.

Callonia wrote:Proxies and moxies and soul skills makes your SP argument irrelevant and silly.

A very valid point. It's somewhat lame to defend OP multisfere cards by sphere level arguments when things like moxies and proxies get you the second sphere's sphere levels for free, sure it slows down your buildup a bit, but it's not like you're actually set back in sp by playing things like Balmoa instead of a mono sphere level 3.

On too another point, the new verlaat is bit too much. It's basically what a refess bringer would look like, but better. At 65 hp and 10 defense he's about as hard to kill as bringer, his agi and RNG are the same. His attack is 5 less, but it's not really a problem as firstly his subtype is a lot better than bringer's so he can have support to buff him further and secondly you'll usually use the action skill anyway. His action skill usually kills better than bringer's skill because it's maxhp hate and it's common to have multiple units fielded. It doesn't heal verlaat completely like bringers skill, but it does heal the entire field, which bringer cannot. The open skill is really useful to dodge some SS, to buff defense of your already sturdy front row and to prevent your field from getting killed the turn in takes for verlaat to hit the field. In a lot of cases it's better than bringers 30 damage on open and has the same price (2 sphere levels). Finally the start skill gives a nice buff to all the fielded solar kingdom units.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby sunbunman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:29 pm

AznApple2 wrote:As for Verlaat, I disagree vehemently that he's a Refess bringer. IMO Verlaat is far more a "win more" card, in that yeah, if you have a whole field of units, he's going to seal the game for you, which is all well and good, but odds are, if you even got to that point with Refess, you've probably wrapped up the game already.


Verlaat brings a lot of firepower to an already tanky refess field in addition to the defence buff. He's a unit that is easily rushable with miffy especially with the lvl 1 lock (which hurts file flow a lot). Also a 35 attack judie is quite powerful, and if u have priests of the royal guard, there's an attack buff on all units once again.

AznApple2 wrote:Phoenix chick is highly irritating, and extremely frustrating to play against.


Agreed.

AznApple2 wrote:Mermaid harpist: you have to be playing mermaids. How many good mermaids can you think of? Me? One. Emana. The rest of them are just bad on some level. Also, if you have your opponent stuck in a harpist loop, it means that while yeah, they're not dying, they're also not getting any more SP or building any more field position. So unless they're somehow grinding you down with their extremely substandard units, you probably can use your SP advantage that you've been building up to summon more stuff and just lay it on harder until you can just brute-force iczer through.


A field of say 4 lvl 3 merms and one of them being emana can wear down a lot of files if they're immortal, chaos anna spam dies to it and i've seen a full field of refess with verlaat get worn down by it. It basically beats most non-control style files.
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Re: Nerf requests for set 11

Postby LoneKnight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:31 am

Well, my peg kingdom can **** them so far, and so can my lawt files that run bitter destiny. I think getting 4 mermaids out is actually somewhat challenging because they aren't THAT good at survival (there's human spear and sword but spear is l4), so when you play the first you then have 5 turns to kill her. Except emana of course. But uh... she's Emana....
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